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Golradaer

Hochmeister
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Sep 15, 2013
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  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
I haven't seen much discussion of Norwegian Wood as compared to Jihad/Re-reconquista/Basileus, so I thought I'd start by sharing my experience. I'm in the mid-1600's in my game, and I don't quite know whether I'll be successful yet. The naval supply provinces are positioned such that you'll have to fight every great power (apart from Great Britain and Portugal, so long as they don't have any colonies with naval supplies), penetrate India/China/Southeast Asia, and be a major colonial power yourself. I've been playing with Hard AI and AI bonuses, just for reference.

The Starting Position

Norway looks like it has a fair amount of territory, but in practice its starting position is horrid. You need to get out of the PU with Denmark as soon as possible, then you need to deal with the more powerful Sweden. Declaring a war of independence before Sweden does is suicide, so you'll need to wait. Normally, Sweden gets some combination of Scotland, the Livonian Order, the Teutonic Order, and/or Pomerania to support its independence, and normally Denmark is allied to Lithuania. Sometimes Lithuania will attack Riga or the Livonian Order in the early game and call Denmark in to assist -- this is bad because it significantly delays your independence. The ideal outcome of the initial Swedish war is Sweden winning and gaining independence, but not taking territory from Denmark. At game start, I disband half of my army, including the cavalry unit, and send the rest to the Shetlands until Sweden is independent.

Now it should be a few years into the game, you've built light ships until you're slightly over your force limit, and you've hired a diplo advisor. If you want to go for exploration as soon as possible, which I think is the best approach, you'll need three ideas into the exploration group as well as diplo tech 7 before you can colonize. You should also be improving relations with Muscovy, the Hansa, Pomerania, the Teutonic Order, and the Livonian Order, and forging a claim on Kola (Novgorod).

To gain your own independence, you can either wait for the Danish king to die, because the war against Sweden should have destroyed his prestige, or declare war yourself. I think keeping Denmark as an ally is preferable, but you need to be free as soon as possible, so either restart until the king does die fairly early, or get the Hansa/Teutonic Order/Pomerania to support your independence.

Looking Outward

Conquering Sweden is a given, but where else should you look to expand? It's possible to acquire Scotland as a vassal in two wars, but you won't be able to defend it against England, so it's not worth doing until much later. You'll need to conquer most of the Baltic coastline at some point, but the countries there don't become more dangerous over time, so it's not a priority. Therefore, I think Russia is the most important area to focus on. You need the Novgorodian land, and you need a Muscovite province, and you need to become a superpower to be able to fight Spain, France, and the Ottomans, so destroying Muscovy and blocking its Siberian colonization fulfills your needs quite effectively.

The first step is turning Novgorod into a vassal. Apart from the outcome of the Swedish independence war, and the method of breaking your PU, this is the most luck-determined element of the early game. If Muscovy goes straight for Novgorod at the start, too much of it may be gone by the time you become free. The ideal situation is when its attention is devoted elsewhere. Sometimes Kazan goes to war with them early on. One game there was a succession war between Muscovy and Lithuania for the throne of Ryazan. Sometimes Muscovy is just more passive than others. Regardless of the specifics, you need to vassalize Novgorod, with as much of its land intact, as soon as possible. Again, you may want to restart if Muscovy takes most of Novgorod, or if it takes Kola (you'll lose your CB). The best option for you is declaring on Novgorod immediately after Muscovy does, and quickly placing a single regiment in each province so that you're the siege leader while Muscovy destroys Novgorod's army. Wait until Muscovy peaces out, then take as much land as you can handle, starting with the Finnish cores. Release Finland as a vassal. It will either take two or three wars to vassalize Novgorod, depending on whether Muscovy is able to take any provinces.

Simultaneous to your wars against Novgorod, you should fight Sweden as soon as you can get Muscovy as an ally. So long as you keep Muscovy engaged in your wars, or recovering from them, they won't expand much at all. Denmark should also be your ally at this point, so you'll have both naval and army superiority. Slowly eat Sweden, taking a province or two for yourself, and returning cores to Finland. If you do it early enough, the provinces of Aland and Finland (which are Swedish culture) will still have Finnish cores. Take care to improve relations with the rest of the Baltic nations to avoid coalitions.

Eventually, you'll have Finland and Novgorod as massive vassals, Sweden won't be much of a threat, and Muscovy will turn hostile. In my playthrough, Lithuania remained independent and allied to Denmark, so I allied them as well and used them against Muscovy. I also was very lucky to get a PU with Poland before 1500. Build up your power by conquering Muscovy and returning cores to Novgorod, ideally releasing Perm to block colonization.

Rebels/Reformation

In the early stages, your manpower pool will be terrible, and you'll have revolt risk issues in Russia if you ever have problems with legitimacy or war exhaustion. It'll also be impossible to convert Orthodox provinces for a while. On top of this, many of your provinces will flip to Protestant/Reformed, which will result in even more revolt risk due to religious unity. Use harsh treatment liberally, especially on the various base tax 1 provinces, and all of the islands. Apart from problems with rebels, revolt risk will destroy your tax and production income, making it very difficult to even field an army at your force limit. You can flip Protestant yourself if you like, but the Counter-Reformation is useful for converting all of the Orthodox provinces without the need for Religious ideas, and Curia Controller is a nice way of getting bonuses as well as denying them to Spain/France/Austria. So long as you don't integrate your vassals until you've converted most of your Scandinavian land back to Catholic, and you're conservative in wars, you'll emerge with a large amount of territory and a strong economy.

Broader Thoughts

For colonization, I was able to get almost the entirely of North America, but Spain has about 90% of South America. Trade goods are random, but there are about six naval supply provinces in South America in my game, so I'll have to fight Spain's colonies at some point. Unfortunately, I doubt my North American colonies will send troops to South America, so I'll have to do it myself. If I were to do it again, I think having strong positions on both continents would be better than completely dominating just one. I would probably aim to cross to the Pacific via Mexico (conquering Maya), then conquer the Incas to rapidly create a wealthy colony to help me fight South American wars.

For ideas, I went Exploration, Offensive, Administrative, Expansion. Religious ideas could have been used instead of Administrative for the CB and relations over time, but I haven't had much issue. By focusing on Muscovy, and slowly taking land from TO/LO/Pomerania/Hansa if they join coalitions against you, your AE will be more limited than if you went straight for German HRE nations. And apart from conquering most of eastern Europe, you only need specific provinces from other areas, so while the wars will be difficult, they shouldn't generate that much AE.

In contrast to achievements like Jihad and Re-reconquista, which are very difficult and luck-based in terms of getting a solid start, I think this achievement is also difficult and luck-dependent later on. For example, in my playthrough the Ottomans managed to get PUs over Qara Qoyunla and a huge Crimea. Spain is worst-case scenario: the Iberian Wedding happened, Castile inherited Naples, and Spain got into a PU over almost full-size Burgundy. Great Britain reconquered Normandy and took Brittany (both areas with naval supplies). So, I suppose I won't have fight France itself (I did have to take some of its colonies), but I was really hoping to avoid war with Great Britain entirely, and I really wish that Spain and the Ottomans weren't so massive.

You'll notice in the following images that my army is far below the force limit. This is partially due to manpower and partially finances. I need a trade fleet to get a decent income from Lubeck due to competition with Denmark and the Hansa. And fighting Denmark/Hansa directly would mean fighting France/Austria, so I've avoided them until recently because my navy can't compete against the major powers. That is one nice thing about coalitions: I can take HRE land without directly attacking the HRE. As it happens, the Hansa just declared a coalition war against me, but I just fought the rest of the coalition, so it's just the Hansa, France, and Tuscany -- I own Hamburg and I really want Lubeck soon. I think there will inevitably be a Portugal/Spain/Great Britain/Ottomans coalition against me, so sequencing my attacks against them will be important.

The World in 1638

7B35C671BD1EBC189F69B83E30E0F8ACC1A68F0F


Relations Map of Europe

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Armies

CFACC70A2107AA2DC7F07EE7092581D6C3E57340


Navies

B4399927B52A1DF5A270C7DBD1351B74DCA31697
 
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This is a very helpful guide. I've been considering a Norwegian Wood run with two things keeping me from an attempt: Early game pain and the darned Fur -> Naval supplies event.

Some additional info that could help you avoid flipping through the ledger too much. According to the "List of Provinces" on the EU4 wiki:

At the start of the game Naval Supplies producing provinces include 11 in Asia, 32 in Europe (you even get to start with 2!), and 4 in North America.
Additionally there are 415 provinces with undefined trade goods at game start. Not all of these are eligible to produce naval supplies because they lack a port or are in the wrong region. (Under trade goods in the wiki it mentions that 61 provinces produce naval supplies)
 
That Spain with wedding, taking over Naples and PU with Burgundy. jesus... Never saw something like this.. Anyway i was trying this achiev a bit as well, but the start was in 90% of cases completly horrible for me. 1) Danish king lives super long, no way breaking from PU easily -> if yes 2) SWE allied to GB AND Muscovy, making me completly unable to expand quickly. 3) If i conquer SWE and expand as you, super France formed allied to Portugal and Spain... This achiev is so frustrating, beyond any means.. Basileus is like super easy in compare of this and i would say even Jihad and Re-Recounqista are way easier.
 
Interesting. I'd honestly never even considered trying this one by staying in Europe. Norway's starting position is so horrid I immediately planned my escape to the US as job #1.

In my attempt, I made the mistake of taking on DEN/SWE at the same time (lured in by a massive war they had just lost). I did win, but rolled up a debt that probably was not worth it.

I colonized NA, sold all my provinces (I didn't realize until then that I had to sell all the islands too), and made my capital in New York (or New Jaastland or whatever :) ). At that point, everything from Canada to Brazil would've been mine, but I briefly forgot that Bermuda existed. ;)

I lost interest and abandoned the game at that point, so I'm not sure if the gains from moving outweigh the minuses of abandoning Europe, even temporarily. But I do know that economically, I already had the cash to fight a war with anyone. Better yet, all that money was from trade that would never make it to Europe.

The trick to this one definitely seems to be how long it takes you to... ahem... start getting wood. :)
 
Declaring a war of independence before Sweden does is suicide, so you'll need to wait.

I had independence and paid off all loans by 1451ish. Suicide indeed.

Conquering Sweden is a given, but where else should you look to expand? It's possible to acquire Scotland as a vassal in two wars, but you won't be able to defend it against England, so it's not worth doing until much later.

If you get a decent military ruler, you can just take England, too. Crapcaster tanks their miltech and gives you an opening that even the Irish minors can take if they are allied with Scotland.

But man, hunting down the naval supplies everywhere will be annoying.
 
Aha, this is the achievement that has eluded me until now. I have a game going right now with this goal. It is the year 1525 and I am confident that it will be a success.

I would like to comment in detail on your excellent post, but do not have time right now. Some observations and personal recommendations I can give though.

As you say, the demolition of Muscovy early is of maximum importance. There is wood there, and potential wood in siberia, in addition to other concerns. This gives, from personal experience, 3 short-term goals:

1- break free from union as soon as possible
2- build power and security in Scandinavia - in effect: destroy sweden and take their land
3- attack Muscovy and force-annex Perm before 1490 latest.

These points are not optional if you want a good start.

For the new world, there will be wood in north america and brazil, so you have to get over there. The question I have not decided upon yet is wether it is best to og all out on colonization by taking the exploration idea early, or rely on your native Exploration ability and colonist, together with the expansion idea. The latter approach means later arrival in new world and fewer colonies, but saves an idea group, give more power in other areas and more power in critical first years.

Religion - I favour takong religious group and converting to Protestant. You will have to expand into russia heavily any way so religious is a good idea.

I have played two serious games in 1.5 latest version.
One with Exploration -> Diplomatic -> Religious (failed)
One with Naval -> Religious -> Expansion (current)

Naval as first idea group for Norway is awesome. It is just what you need to earn much-needed money from trade, and defend your coasts and islands from everyone. Religious in time for the reformation is good and gives the option to expand into northern russia/novgorod early on and convert it. Expansion comes in time for your 4th national idea that gives explorers (around 1520).
 
Open exploration --> expansion. You have real trade potential and can basically stranglehold the new world. Take up to exploration 3, then store DIP all the way to almost 999, taking max neighbor bonus...EXCEPT on tech 7 which you take immediately. This will let you reach Greenland. After that, take colonist in expansion to get 2 going and work up in exploration for +33 settler rate and 3rd colonist as well as +10 settler rate and merchant in expansion.

You'll be a little less efficient in terms of military points, but this gives you some leeway to abuse scorched earth (fastest way to flatten Sweden) and go ahead of years in the short term.

If you vassal feed Novgorod and annex it + take some Muscovy, you'll probably have Orthodox Russian provinces in accepted culture, meaning no 2% penalty. Even their capitol @ 10 tax will just resist conversion at 6%. Regardless of whether you go protestant or embrace counter-reformation, you have a 2% base rate, an easy 3% or more from decisions, and can hire an inquisitor + run stability to boost conversion strength. Even as Catholic Kongo I converted all of sub-Saharan Africa w/o religious ideas via counter reformation, and Timbuktu is 14 tax Sunni! That's 9% resistance; much stronger than anything you'll face and enough that you'll notice that Christians can convert a 6% resistance trivially without even counter-reformation.

So religious is not a crucial priority, and though of course it's a good group in general IMO it's not a priority. Beating Sweden/Muscovy and having 4 colonists will probably be enough to cement you as a superpower and let you roll through for naval supplies anywhere you need them.
 
I had independence and paid off all loans by 1451ish. Suicide indeed.
How far over force limit did you go? Which countries supported you? Was this with AI bonuses? Denmark and Sweden each start with 15,000 troops (plus Holstein's 6,000), Norway has 6,000, and Sweden has the infantry combat ability bonus, so you'd need a large enough force to stomp the Swedish army and ensure that you stack wipe it before the two armies can link up -- even then, the 21,000 from Denmark plus Holstein would be hard to deal with without outside help, not to mention the usual Lithuania alliance Denmark has. I'm interested to hear your approach.

If you get a decent military ruler, you can just take England, too. Crapcaster tanks their miltech and gives you an opening that even the Irish minors can take if they are allied with Scotland.
Unless you're talking about attacking when they're overrun by rebels or busy elsewhere, England had a standing force of about 50,000 when I could field barely half of that. That said, the major problem is fighting wars on two fronts with an inferior navy, meaning that even if I win one war against England, as soon as I remove my army to fight Sweden again, they'll likely attack, and their navy will stop me from shuttling my army back over. It just didn't seem worthwhile to focus that much on England when there aren't even any naval supplies in the British Isles.

Good luck with your game!
 
How far over force limit did you go? Which countries supported you?

1-2 units over. The only nation that I got to support independence was the Hansa. I used scorched earth, which works the same way it does in the Mongol Khanate opening. Except Norway actually gets support help, their overlord doesn't have a guaranteed (begins with) shock V general, and nobody else declares on them within 6 months of the opening, so it's easier. Also, you can actually find allies and aren't sandwiched between only hostile neighbors after independence.

If I were to do it again I'd probably pick up support from one of the theocracies or let Sweden break free first, as it wouldn't materially slow me down. Still, since my independence war wrecked Denmark pretty hard Sweden declared right after me, giving an easy opportunity at a dogpile in either direction :p.

Unless you're talking about attacking when they're overrun by rebels or busy elsewhere, England had a standing force of about 50,000 when I could field barely half of that.

You need them to be slightly depleted in war, even down to ~20k should be fine for Norway if you have Scotland. What you *really* need is to reach tech 5 in military before them and toss 6 pip units in their face. However, this will bleed into important time that could be spent trashing Muscovy and as you said you want naval supplies, so while you CAN beat England and it wouldn't be that bad, it won't directly help with your goals; a focused effort will get such a CN lead on them that they won't realistically cause you problems in NA.
 
Regarding independence, it is imperative that you declare before Sweden. This means within 1 year of game start more or less.
Teutonics and Hansa will always support you. Novgorod will after buttering up and Pommerania/Livonia may also help. (Set Muscovy and Brandenburg as rivals at once, get mil. access from Novgorod.)
Countries supporting independence will always be called.
If you let Sweden beat you to it, you will waste 5 years fighting the same countries, and probably lose. They will invade and siege down Norway proper with superior armies, giving massive WE.

->TheMeInTeam:

Exploration as 1st Idea->DipTech 7 is the colonization on steroids approach. It gives unlimited colonial power over time.
The problem is you will have to go east as well, quickly, and you will be weak as a kitten for the first crucial period. I have tried hard to gain enough momentum in Europe while keeping a serious colonial effort going, but achieving all the desired objectives at once (Muscovy, Novgorod, Scotland, Sweden, Colonization) is not something to count on. You are also completely dependent on great DIP rulers.

(Disclaimer: I only play w/o abusing stuff like scorched earth bug and DDRJake-AE burn. Only Ironman.)
 
That achievement is haunting me for months now. I started it in 1.3 I think and because of that I had no one supporting my independence. I became independent very late by death of the Danish king. However, Sweden broke off earlier and became powerful. I also became powerful through exploration, some conquests in Britain and then BAM a PU with France. I am a superpower now in the year 1631. But I'm still stuck somehow. Here's my domain of power.



It doesn't look that bad, but take a look at the two main problems of mine - one is white the other is blue:



Austria is just a beast. They even lead a PU with Milan, have integrated Hungary and are confortably in the seat of power in the Empire. I only need some provinces from in Hungary, I will delay that for the late game. But they are also allied with so many people. It's going to be rough.

Even more problematic is Sweden. I never quite killed them off and now that they have all their national ideas, I just don't stand a chance. As Norway you have I guess a 5% bonus in discipline and that's it. Sweden is so superior, they rip my armies apart. I hope that after integrating France I have more manpower and can eventually kill them off, but all of this takes so much time and manpower. I didn't even get around dealing with Muscovy yet.

Suggestions?
 
Exploration as 1st Idea->DipTech 7 is the colonization on steroids approach. It gives unlimited colonial power over time.
The problem is you will have to go east as well, quickly, and you will be weak as a kitten for the first crucial period. I have tried hard to gain enough momentum in Europe while keeping a serious colonial effort going, but achieving all the desired objectives at once (Muscovy, Novgorod, Scotland, Sweden, Colonization) is not something to count on. You are also completely dependent on great DIP rulers.

It's not like opening naval --> religious makes you super strong. The only detriment to exploration 1st is trying to fund colonies. If you want to beat Sweden and Muscovy quickly, nothing is going to save you but strong alliances, excellent unit control, and abusing attrition to its fullest. While naval would certainly help against Denmark, as you point out you'll be free or screwed before 1st idea, and against the next most threatening nations it's only somewhat of an advantage...it's not like you'd be deep in it before tearing up Sweden for instance.

With 4 colonists, you can afford to push colonization in both directions, and you'll want those colonists to claim as much power in both halves of the world as possible, making snagging the naval supplies more realistic. Remember, you're going for an achievement here. Not only are you trying to survive the early game, you're trying to get to the point where you can press Spain for territory in the new world while still grabbing provinces in Siberia and beyond.
 
That achievement is haunting me for months now. I started it in 1.3 I think and because of that I had no one supporting my independence. I became independent very late by death of the Danish king. However, Sweden broke off earlier and became powerful. I also became powerful through exploration, some conquests in Britain and then BAM a PU with France. I am a superpower now in the year 1631. But I'm still stuck somehow. Here's my domain of power.



It doesn't look that bad, but take a look at the two main problems of mine - one is white the other is blue:



Austria is just a beast. They even lead a PU with Milan, have integrated Hungary and are confortably in the seat of power in the Empire. I only need some provinces from in Hungary, I will delay that for the late game. But they are also allied with so many people. It's going to be rough.

Even more problematic is Sweden. I never quite killed them off and now that they have all their national ideas, I just don't stand a chance. As Norway you have I guess a 5% bonus in discipline and that's it. Sweden is so superior, they rip my armies apart. I hope that after integrating France I have more manpower and can eventually kill them off, but all of this takes so much time and manpower. I didn't even get around dealing with Muscovy yet.

Suggestions?

Does Sweden attack you? You don't actually need to own that land, but I assume they'll likely join any coalition against you, so you'll have to deal with them anyway. You're in a good position against Castile, you really need to start pushing into the east for the Russian and Lithuanian naval supplies. France will likely have issues with military access, so you may want to wait until you integrate them and then invade Muscovy from the north.

Did you already conquer the Hansa? I can't really tell. If you did, start pushing east along the coastline toward Poland. You're actually stronger right now with France in the PU because they have stronger military ideas than you and a huge manpower pool of their own, so I would use them to deal with Austria, Genoa, Aragon, and Castile. You'll need Liguria and Corsica from Genoa and Aragon, plus two Castilian provinces. You could try lending Genoa money to get a CB.
 
Regarding independence, it is imperative that you declare before Sweden. This means within 1 year of game start more or less.
Teutonics and Hansa will always support you. Novgorod will after buttering up and Pommerania/Livonia may also help. (Set Muscovy and Brandenburg as rivals at once, get mil. access from Novgorod.)
Countries supporting independence will always be called.
If you let Sweden beat you to it, you will waste 5 years fighting the same countries, and probably lose. They will invade and siege down Norway proper with superior armies, giving massive WE.
Regarding Sweden's war, I found that if you ship all of your regiments to the Shetlands and effectively ignore the war, often Sweden will only bother sieging two or three of your provinces before peace is called. Other times it's as you say: massive war exhaustion, which is really bad. Going with your approach of getting independence immediately, is it difficult to regain an alliance with Denmark?

It's not like opening naval --> religious makes you super strong. The only detriment to exploration 1st is trying to fund colonies. If you want to beat Sweden and Muscovy quickly, nothing is going to save you but strong alliances, excellent unit control, and abusing attrition to its fullest. While naval would certainly help against Denmark, as you point out you'll be free or screwed before 1st idea, and against the next most threatening nations it's only somewhat of an advantage...it's not like you'd be deep in it before tearing up Sweden for instance.

With 4 colonists, you can afford to push colonization in both directions, and you'll want those colonists to claim as much power in both halves of the world as possible, making snagging the naval supplies more realistic. Remember, you're going for an achievement here. Not only are you trying to survive the early game, you're trying to get to the point where you can press Spain for territory in the new world while still grabbing provinces in Siberia and beyond.
The reason I didn't go naval myself is none of the countries you fight in the first couple of centuries are major naval powers, so Denmark is sufficient to cover that side of things, and I wouldn't be able to match the heavy ships of any actual naval power even if I had naval ideas. Not to mention, Exploration gives a bonus to fleet limit as well.

I think taking Offensive as a second idea group is the best way to prepare for the wars against Sweden and Muscovy. It's imperative to have good generals because Muscovy certainly will, and Forced March is extremely useful in Russia.
 
Does Sweden attack you? You don't actually need to own that land, but I assume they'll likely join any coalition against you, so you'll have to deal with them anyway. You're in a good position against Castile, you really need to start pushing into the east for the Russian and Lithuanian naval supplies. France will likely have issues with military access, so you may want to wait until you integrate them and then invade Muscovy from the north.

Did you already conquer the Hansa? I can't really tell. If you did, start pushing east along the coastline toward Poland. You're actually stronger right now with France in the PU because they have stronger military ideas than you and a huge manpower pool of their own, so I would use them to deal with Austria, Genoa, Aragon, and Castile. You'll need Liguria and Corsica from Genoa and Aragon, plus two Castilian provinces. You could try lending Genoa money to get a CB.

I am currently in a war and although I have a slight upper hand, my manpower is zero and my chance of getting the one province I need for them is rather small. They are not in a coalition, but if they were, it would be tough. I just wanted to nerf them a little bit, I don't want to conquer them. Hansa are on top of my list so I get some land connection as I have all the Netherlands and France. Spain isn't much of a worry as the Iberian wedding dind't trigger and Aragon is friendly with me (for the moment).

Integrating France really is a tough choice. But I need the manpower, and, as you said, land access is a bit of a problem, especially if I fight east. Also I can't push claims on Spain. So integration is currently running, although I really like their military and they're even nicely colonizing for me. Perhaps I'll re-release France as a vassall later.

I still think the achievement is doable at the moment. I have a feeling it's best to chicken out of the war for now, concentrate on Muscovy (they are in a war with Austria) and return later some decades later with 100K Merc stacks and wipe those Swedish out ^^ However if ever they join a coalition or an alliance with Austria, I'm dead, as I have no alliances to speak of.
 
Sigh. Does Muscovy USUALLY ally Denmark in time to stop Sweden from gaining independence? I had a run end due to 2 unlucky factors in a row:

1. Muscovy allied Denmark and helped the wtfown Sweden, effectively blocking me after I gained independence early.
2. I went after England to gain some momentum and FL, but Lancaster died very early and my small window to delcare evaporated when France wouldn't join the war.

I can get a better opening than that, I'm sure of it, so I'll try again later.
 
->Golradaer
Going with your approach of getting independence immediately, is it difficult to regain an alliance with Denmark?
No, it is easy if you are not greedy and get much AE. They love you as historical friends.

One approach for independence: "The Holstein Approach"
Get support from Hansa, Teutons, Novgorod, (Pommerania/Livonia/Scotland(rare)). Get military access from Hansa and move army there. Declare war, wipe out Holstein, siege/loot continental Denmark/Holstein, and blockade straits/danish army with superior navy. Optional destroy danish army, or lead away from capital island. By the time the swedes and lithuanians can do any serious damage, you have warscore needed. Loot, blockades and wartax will make money. This war is not very risky, wich is good.

Getting danish ally is very important if you follow advice to beat up Sweden relentlessly, or else they will get AE and join coalition soon. But wait until the swedes have gained independence naturally. After your war, the swedes are strong and danes weak (esp. With "Holstein Approach")and unprestigeous, so hopefully they will hurry up if the king doesnt die of natural causes.

->PedroVargas
Nice PU you have there. Because of it, I think your situation is salvageable, but I think your biggest problem might be beige/yellow. What is the situation in siberia? Is there Wood there? If so, you have a massive conquest job on your hands, and you better start right away.

It is a great colonization job, but your maps are in fact also a good example of what can happen if you focus too much on the new world and too little on the old. And doing both is hard. (this is the reason I am leaning towards later colonisation)

Out of curousity since you have come to 1600+, what is the Wood situation in the New World? :)

->TheMeInTeam
That is bad luck, I hope it improves. It is very ballsy to go after England so early, if you can pull it off at the same time as dominating sweden I take off my hat. I wait until I have gone some way into the naval idea group myself :)

The problem I have faced in first 50 years is that you are not strong enough to fight on all fronts. As you 100% correctly say, victory comes from strong alliances (Denmark, Lithuania(!), Livonia...) and steel unit control, not brute force.


Btw, has anyone had special success with different Idea Groups?

I think the ideal approach for my style (Liberation->Sweden->Muscovy, convert to protestant, Go West) would be:
Exploration3,Diplotech 7->Religious->Expansion
(Unlimited Colonial Power, no help first 40 years)

Unfortunately, the more practical approach is:
Naval->Religious->Expansion->Exploration
(Naval dominance and power/trademoney->rapid expansion in europe, much later colonization means catch-up)
 
That is bad luck, I hope it improves. It is very ballsy to go after England so early, if you can pull it off at the same time as dominating sweden I take off my hat. I wait until I have gone some way into the naval idea group myself

I couldn't realistically attack Sweden because Muscovy's alliance with Denmark caused their declaration of independence to fail (Sweden declared shortly after I won my independence, but Denmark allied Muscovy and called them). Because of that, any war vs Sweden meant also fighting Denmark, Muscovy, and a few minors. While I can abuse scorched earth, taking on 80ish units is a bit much in the first 20-30 years.

England is actually not that hard to beat if you can hit the timing, but you need Lancaster to live a while so that you can go in tech 5 vs 4 with an ally to distract Portugal. I decided to gamble on that only because I couldn't declare on Muscovy so soon, but it didn't pay off due to England getting a great king within 10 years of the start.

If you are knowledgeable with scorched earth, beating Sweden solo is trivial. It's when they drag in a ton of allies that it gets tricky. In retrospect, maybe I should have pushed to ally with Poland + Lithuania as Poland blobbed quite a bit. Full annexing Denmark to steal Sweden as a PU would be an incredibly dangerous, but rewarding, gambit.

I think the ideal approach for my style (Liberation->Sweden->Muscovy, convert to protestant, Go West) would be:
Exploration3,Diplotech 7->Religious->Expansion
(Unlimited Colonial Power, no help first 40 years)

Unfortunately, the more practical approach is:
Naval->Religious->Expansion->Exploration
(Naval dominance and power/trademoney->rapid expansion in europe, much later colonization means catch-up)

Why religious? You're going to be taking same culture group or accepted cultures for long time, and when you aren't the tax won't be that high. I also don't think naval is worth the time in single player, especially not when your initial crucial wars are happening before you can possibly have any idea group. Pressing ASAP for colonies is the way to go IMO, though you could sneak in a military idea 2nd perhaps to avoid ahead of years. I still think exploration --> expansion is strongest overall though. CNs give you a tremendous amount of FL to army/navy and Norway can even steer back to itself rather than having to collect in the new world.