How to deal with massive Sunni empire?

Wow. Is that Seljuk over there?

Did you start at 1066 or 867?

Seems like you fcked up beginning if you allowed for formation of such big blob.
The best would be to spam holy war and spam assault, getting 100% before they army will be organised.
And do claim/holy war for Alexandria in first place to get holy order, also, you can change your capital to Alexandria, to have more mercs and better ability to spam assaults for them.

Have you considered joining them and destroying them from within?

MBVS said:

Have you considered joining them and destroying them from within?

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He can't. He is not their de jure. : c

Rozmarzony said:

He can't. He is not their de jure. : c

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Well FUUUUUUUUUUUUU...

Maybe intentionally give up the throne, become a super-duke, get independence, and THEN swear fealty to your new Sunni Overlords? Sometimes you have to take a few steps back to move forward. LOL.

Jewish? That's sad then. ; p
If you wanna have nice game - just wait and look how everything will happen, maybe you will have your chance.
If you wanna ubergaming - start again.

A decadence revolt in the caliphate may help. It tends to splinter, at least a little, after a new dynasty usurps the empire.

Aymen2 said:

Is there a way to split them up from the outside?

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I'd suggest trying to Sow Dissent but I've never had much luck with that myself. Too bad there is no diplomatic option to encourage (and offer support) other characters to become independent. I don't know if it ever happened historically but it seems logical that a King would lend a hand if a rival's Duke wanted to rebel.

Aymen2 said:

Their army is 120k strong, second power is Seljuk with 50k, then I come with 30k. I had a hard time warring them when they were fighting 5 wars, including a Djabi revolt with 50k troops.
Is there a way to split them up from the outside?

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you can upload your savegame, if you really curious if it's winnable at this point.

I did it once already:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...lim-empire&p=16993320&viewfull=1#post16993320

You should only use archer retinues and max. military organisation to have a lot of them.
Before starting the war hire mercs, and wait until they will have 100% of morale.

Something like this:


Then just start assaulting nearest provs:
The best would be for personal demense of caliph, but that isn't so important.
Look for low garnisons. (province, where enemy levies were raised)
All time mercs/retinues and HO after you will have it, will reinforce so loosing them in assault isn't the problem. However, if you wanna assault 1k garrison, have at least 10k people, or 6-8k but this only work pure archers armies.

Use army from your personal demense/from vassals as support.

For example:
Retinues and mercs for Egypt.
Levies for nearest provs, where you can merge them into one big stack.

Ahh, and aim for rich provs, so attack for duchies from Egypt in first place and using such tactic expand slowly to Jerusalem.

You can look at my 3 chapters/screenshot-shows about maxing Nubia in 1066 start, if you want to see how it looks in practice.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-m-playing&p=16626865&viewfull=1#post16626865

They have small cap for retinues so you can have a lot of them.
And what's the best:
They have some engine bonuses to assaults.
You will see. : p

Assaulting with 10k pure archer army is like assaulting with 15-18k normal army, or even more.

And that's pretty important in this tactics, cause you want to assault everything as fast, as possible.

Aymen2 said:

Thank you so much. This helps a lot.

Can you tell me why only archers?

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Archers assault/siege faster.

Wow. Normally, I'd say you're screwed but as of the latest patch, you still have some options.
First, let's analyze your situation:

Normally as an East African, you would be advised to marry into the Byzantines so that you would have a nearby ally. Sadly, they have broken. You could instead try allying the Italians. They seem to be stable and they can project power across the Meditteraneean. You control many coastal provinces in the Indian Ocean so that good. On the other hand, those provinces are in Arabia which is bad. Now here are your options:


1. The Cheesy Method -

The thinking behind this stragedy is that you'll be targeted by the Caliphate very soon so it is best to fold now. Now this tactic is also very gamey. It involves escaping to India. You control Oman which puts you in range of some (hopefully) Hindu areas. You'll go to India, use your existing resources to conquer all of it, and build up a power base. In addition, you'll get rid of all your provinces outside the Abyssinian empire to not attract the attention of the Caliphate. Controlling India and Abyssinia will give you enough power to take Persia and Afghanistan. Then you can take on the Caliphate at your leisure. This method is very similar to the Europe Universalis tactic of escaping to the Americas.


2. The Vassal Method -

In this strategy, assuming that you hold a king level title and the Caliphate is an empire level title, you'll swear fealty to the Djabi. Keep your diplomatic councilman parked in the Caliphate capital and slowly expand through Egypt and North Africa while occasionally fighting civil wars to keep crown authority low. Once you have enough power, either usurp the empire or lead a worldwide independence revolt. This is similar to the strategy used by Zoroastrian Karen to survive.

3. The Bulwark Method -

This is the most historical strategy and it is also the hardest. Basically you stay as you are now, but you use assassinations to destabilize the Muslims. Kill the current Caliph while his sons are underaged and the Djabis will be a lot more unstable. Whenever a league revolt happens, chip away the Sunnis until you have a coastline in the Mediterranean. Expand in the Meditteraneean and North African until you can take on the Djabis.


Here are also some general tips.

• Stay the hell away from the Emirate of Medina. Holding those areas will mean the every Muslim in the world (and from the look of things, they are numerous and powerful) will be gunning for you and they won't stop until they have wiped you off the map.

• Time your assaults on the Sunnis with crusades and liberation revolts. They will draw attention away from your wars and you will be able to quickly siege down an area to win a war before they can mobilize troops to defend against you.

• Keep a stash of 3000 gold on hand. If you can concentrate 30 thousand troops in one location (with mercenaries) you can cut doomstacks as they come as any more will cause them to suffer attrition.