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I probably ask too many questions. But you guys are so good at answering them. ;)

Playing Norman Sicily as my second dynasty. Fun so far, but the easy part is done (only one remaining county of my initial Kingdom to incorporate). Now I want to head north and eventually form Italy.

There are a few pieces not in the HRE, and obviously I start with those. But most of it is HRE. I've seen references to attacking rebelling dynasties, but am not clear on the mechanics of that. Advice on that or other mechanisms for forming Italy would be appreciated.
 
lmaggitti said:
I probably ask too many questions. But you guys are so good at answering them. ;)

Playing Norman Sicily as my second dynasty. Fun so far, but the easy part is done (only one remaining county of my initial Kingdom to incorporate). Now I want to head north and eventually form Italy.

There are a few pieces not in the HRE, and obviously I start with those. But most of it is HRE. I've seen references to attacking rebelling dynasties, but am not clear on the mechanics of that. Advice on that or other mechanisms for forming Italy would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Wait for HRE civil wars to make your move.
 
Hopit said:
Wait for HRE civil wars to make your move.
Click to expand...

Okay - but when I tried to do that as Ireland when England was in a civil war, I got a big warning that the war would end when the civil war ended and that instead I'd be fighting against England. Or something like that.

Can someone point me to a discussion of the mechanics of DOWing a noble involved in a civil war?

Thanks.

And by civil war I assume you mean rebellion - or is there a civil war distinct from a rebellion?
 
lmaggitti said:
Can someone point me to a discussion of the mechanics of DOWing a noble involved in a civil war?

Thanks.

And by civil war I assume you mean rebellion - or is there a civil war distinct from a rebellion?
Click to expand...

It works entirely like how you think. You make the revolting vassal surrender to you before they surrender to their liege. Assaulting their holdings or beating an army or two from their liege may be involved.

Civil war/rebellion/revolt/etc is where the vassal becomes temporarily under direct control of the liege and shows up as a different color on the map.
 
lmaggitti said:
Okay - but when I tried to do that as Ireland when England was in a civil war, I got a big warning that the war would end when the civil war ended and that instead I'd be fighting against England. Or something like that.

Can someone point me to a discussion of the mechanics of DOWing a noble involved in a civil war?

Thanks.

And by civil war I assume you mean rebellion - or is there a civil war distinct from a rebellion?
Click to expand...
If the civil war ended while you were fighting one of the people who rebelled, it will end the war inconclusively.
Civil war, as in kingdom breaks apart and the local nobles are fighting their liege for some stupid reason.
 
You just made me realize that the changes to the civil war mechanics in the next patch are going to be a big nerf to the scooping of provinces while they are rebelling against their liege.
 
Cymsdale said:
You just made me realize that the changes to the civil war mechanics in the next patch are going to be a big nerf to the scooping of provinces while they are rebelling against their liege.
Click to expand...
Well, it is kinda easy way to get land very quickly...
 
lmaggitti said:
I probably ask too many questions. But you guys are so good at answering them. ;)

Playing Norman Sicily as my second dynasty. Fun so far, but the easy part is done (only one remaining county of my initial Kingdom to incorporate). Now I want to head north and eventually form Italy.

There are a few pieces not in the HRE, and obviously I start with those. But most of it is HRE. I've seen references to attacking rebelling dynasties, but am not clear on the mechanics of that. Advice on that or other mechanisms for forming Italy would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Let me take you through a scenario.

You notice a massive civil war in the HRE that includes some counts/dukes that you would like to include in your kingdom.
1st check to see if the count/duke is the leader of the war against his nominal liege. Click his county, go to diplomacy page and scroll over the war against his liege. If he is the first attacker (or defender) against his nominal liege DO NOT ATTACK him if he has only one of his top tier title (county or duchy). Why? Because he will surrender or white peace with his nominal liege right before he loses the war to you. If he has more than one of the top tier title that you are attacking him he will lose the war with you and countiue of with one less county or duchy.

I.E. Im the king of england and I see a massive civil war in the kingdowm of wales. I have a claim on Powys, but the count of Powys is the leader of the revolt. He has only one county. I would NOT attck him because the count would rather loose the war against his nominal liege (and maybe keep his county) than to loose his only county to me and be without one.

See the point?

I.E. Im the king of england and I see a massive civil war in the kingdowm of wales. I have a claim on Powys. The count of Powys is also the count of Gwent. I press my claim and ROFLSTOMP him BEFORE his war with his nominal liege hits 100% in his or his nominal liege's favor. He surrenders the county to me and countinues fighting his nominal liege as the count of Gwent.

I hope I made the point clear.
 
Thanks guys.

About 55 years in, while France is a patchwork of breakaway nobles resulting from multiple rebellions, the HRE has had not one rebellion. I have only 5 Italian Counties, none of which were part of the HRE.

Not complaining, mind you. Still having a blast. But, given the mess that France has become, I'm think I may be expanding there instead of Italy.
 
lmaggitti said:
Thanks guys.

About 55 years in, while France is a patchwork of breakaway nobles resulting from multiple rebellions, the HRE has had not one rebellion. I have only 5 Italian Counties, none of which were part of the HRE.

Not complaining, mind you. Still having a blast. But, given the mess that France has become, I'm think I may be expanding there instead of Italy.
Click to expand...

Welll…

The OTHER thing you could do is ignore the HRE provinces for now, and swear fealty to Byzantium since Sicily is a de jure vassal.

This allows you to:

1) Switch to Greek culture if you so wish, which gets Cataphracts. They are widely considered the BEST unique unit due to Heavy Cavalry/Horse Archers.

2) As a King/Despot, you don't suffer from a lot of the restrictions that a Duke would regarding Imperial Authority- at the very least, I remember that King-level vassals can ignore the warfare restrictions. You're also likely to be the single biggest vassal. At a certain point, simply taking the Emperorship should be simple enough, even if you haven't switched to Orthodoxy. From there, act as you see fit.
 
Hopit said:
Well, it is kinda easy way to get land very quickly...
Click to expand...

I noticed that if someone wants to gain independence, it is possible to proactively grant it to them and then declare war on them one-by-one right afterwards. Not only does it split the opposition, but you get +50 for giving independence and -25 for starting the war. Additionally, you can grant them independence while the rebellion dialog (agree/war) is up, and granting the leader of the faction indepence then automatically splits the faction too, because he is no longer part of your empire. I felt that this was "too good", so I have not been doing it, but it was obviously possible. I kind of dislike it since you end up with positive net opinion, but the way of splitting them is nice. Maybe it would make sense that those who form the faction become strong allies after the war, now that they will be temporary vassals during the war.
 
horngeek said:
Welll…

The OTHER thing you could do is ignore the HRE provinces for now, and swear fealty to Byzantium since Sicily is a de jure vassal.

This allows you to:

1) Switch to Greek culture if you so wish, which gets Cataphracts. They are widely considered the BEST unique unit due to Heavy Cavalry/Horse Archers.

2) As a King/Despot, you don't suffer from a lot of the restrictions that a Duke would regarding Imperial Authority- at the very least, I remember that King-level vassals can ignore the warfare restrictions. You're also likely to be the single biggest vassal. At a certain point, simply taking the Emperorship should be simple enough, even if you haven't switched to Orthodoxy. From there, act as you see fit.
Click to expand...

Wow, amazing advice. I don't know how to usurp the Emperorship, or how to turn Greek (and am not sure I want to), but I'm already conquering Greece from my fellow vassals. :)
 
So how DO I take the Byzantium Empire (as a vassal of the Empire)? I guess (somehow) get into the line of succession - marry in I guess? - and then fight a war to install myself as Emperor (since I assume I will be my own favorite heir). Will that work, and is there another method that will work?

Totally OT, well, not really, just somewhat OT, but I am LOVING the dynastic aspects of the game. Once I have them mastered (nowhere near that yet) I'm sure there are some very nice things I can pull off. :)
 
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