Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Regnal Numbers and Multiple Names

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Crusader Kings II 69864 Bug Reports 19707 User Modifications 10587 Suggestions 5969 Tech Support 6361 After Action Reports
sunandstar said:
Not only Manuel. Caesar had a sister named Iulia (or Julia), and he was Iulius (or Julius). Usually, fathers named kids with same name, usually as he was named (like Octavius for boys and Octavia for girls), most kids get the same name (even multiple boys and multiple girls), so one kid was Octavius, and forth was Quintus Octavius. And so on and so on.
Click to expand...

Roman names are completely different.

Julius Caesar had a sister named Julia because Julius was his family name and the Romans changed the gender of their family name based on their gender. His first name was not Julius but Gaius. Caesar was not his family name, it was a heredity nickname among his branch of the Julii family to distinguish it from other branches.

His sisters Julia Caesaris (he had two) weren't named Julia, they didn't have first names at all. In highly patriarchal Roman society women didn't really need names outside of their family. The second sister's daughters (one of whom was the mother of Augustus) were just given her husbands family name and 1, 2 and 3 to distinguish them. Though since Roman first names are often ignored to the point modern people think the family name is a first name the sexism inherent in the naming system didn't have that much effect.

Octavius was also a family name, with the first name again being Gaius. Augustus sister Octavia also just didn't have a first name and is called 'the younger' (minor) to distinguish her from some other Octavia.
 
Last edited:
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
ahyangyi said:
I believe naming many children with the same name actually happened in history. For example Manuel I Komnenos had 3 sons named Alexios, in order to get the AIMA prophecy fulfilled.
Click to expand...

There was a Viking with twin sons both named Halfdan. :)

Eventually he wanted to call his son Dan. But because he got twins... He called each of them Half-Dan. :D (No Halfdan is a normal name for Norse)
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Regnal numbers can be fun, except IMO for those cultures that incorporate their fathers first name into their last name.

I play a lot of games as Norse, so having someone named Yngvar Yngvarsson IV Knytling would drive me knuts ( <--- pun intended )
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Hvymtlboy said:
Regnal numbers can be fun, except IMO for those cultures that incorporate their fathers first name into their last name.

I play a lot of games as Norse, so having someone named Yngvar Yngvarsson IV Knytling would drive me knuts ( <--- pun intended )
Click to expand...

Hæsteinn Hæsteinnson Hæsteining
 
Hvymtlboy said:
Regnal numbers can be fun, except IMO for those cultures that incorporate their fathers first name into their last name.

I play a lot of games as Norse, so having someone named Yngvar Yngvarsson IV Knytling would drive me knuts ( <--- pun intended )
Click to expand...

But a Norseman like that would already be called Yngvar IV Yngvarsson Knytling with the current system the game has for patronymics.
 
sunandstar said:
Not only Manuel. Caesar had a sister named Iulia (or Julia), and he was Iulius (or Julius). Usually, fathers named kids with same name, usually as he was named (like Octavius for boys and Octavia for girls), most kids get the same name (even multiple boys and multiple girls), so one kid was Octavius, and forth was Quintus Octavius. And so on and so on.
Click to expand...

Actually, Caesar's name was Gaius. Julius was something of a "surname" of the time, that meant he was from the gens (clan) Julia. Males from the clan were named Julius, while females were named Julia. So he was Gaius, from Clan Julia and from the Caesar family. Octavius was actually named Gaius, and he was from Gens (clan) Octavia. He changed his name when he was adopted by Caesar to Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus himself. And he added the title Augustus afterwards. But his original name kinda stuck in history, so he's usually known as Octavius Augustus. His full title was Imperator Gaius Iulius divi filius Caesar Octavianus Augustus.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
TMSaxon said:
I don't know about elsewhere, but after the Norman Conquest, the English kings where definitely common given numbers in the Middle Ages by the chroniclers and letter writers- Edward III was referred to as such in practically all sources that I have seen. Edward I was sometimes also referred to as Edward, the first of that name since the Conquest.
Click to expand...
It's my understanding that this started with the Edwards, because there were three in immediate succession. Chroniclers took to calling the elder king Edward the First and his son Edward the Second and this established a precedent. Prior to this, it was common to use nicknames such as William Rufus as distinct from William the Conqueror.
 
Bj0rn said:
Actually, Caesar's name was Gaius. Julius was something of a "surname" of the time, that meant he was from the gens (clan) Julia. Males from the clan were named Julius, while females were named Julia. So he was Gaius, from Clan Julia and from the Caesar family. Octavius was actually named Gaius, and he was from Gens (clan) Octavia. He changed his name when he was adopted by Caesar to Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus himself. And he added the title Augustus afterwards. But his original name kinda stuck in history, so he's usually known as Octavius Augustus. His full title was Imperator Gaius Iulius divi filius Caesar Octavianus Augustus.
Click to expand...
Becomes even more complicated. He was born as Gaius Octavius (so in the gens Octavii), but when he was adopted by Caesar, he changed his name to Gaius Iulius Caesar Octavianus (so now in the gens Iulii, and with the ''surname'' Octavius in the diminutive form). He quickly dropped Octavianus, though, and after Caesar's death and deification, became known as Gaius Iulius Caesar Divi Filius (''Son of the God''). Then, when he came emperor, he added the titles Imperator (''commander'') and Augustus (''majestic'' or ''venerable''), so he became Imperator Gaius Iulius Caesar Divi Filius Augustus. I wish I had such a fancy name.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Holy Necro! I might as well requote myself:

Arcvalons said:
Me too. I wish I could reach high regnal numbers without naming all my dynasty the same, usually the ones I give THE name die early. It'd be awesome if I could call them William Louis, William Robert, William Henry, and they ascend as William I, II, and III.
Click to expand...
 
AchedTeacher said:
Did it ever happen in real life that you'd have a Wilhelm II August after a Wilhelm II? Why not stick to Wilhelm as his first name?
Click to expand...

I direct you to the Kings of Prussia who include all as individuals; Albert, Albert Frederick, Frederick William, Frederick I, Frederick William I, Frederick William IV, William II.

A taster. They pretty much lived for not carrying on a damn good set of regnal numbers. Savages. If they'd been smart about it the last King of Prussia could have been William VIII or Frederick IX, how awesome that would have looked on coinage!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back