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New week, new dev diary! This time, I am going to talk of the new religions and their intricacies. As I mentioned last week, there is now a new Indian religion group with three religions; Hindu, Buddhist and Jain. What you get when you buy Rajas of India is the ability to play as a ruler of one of these religions, with all the associated mechanics.

ck2_RoI_dd_02_De_Jure_Empires.png

The general idea with all three Indian religions is that they are pluralistic and tolerant, especially toward each other. Thus, none of them have any heresies to worry about. Instead, low religion authority will cause various negative events to fire, much in the same way that having negative money does. This tolerance is also reflected in province revolt risk and vassals' opinions of their lieges. Instead of heresies, characters may belong to an accepted branch of their religion. Thus, for example, a Hindu can be a Shaivist, Shaktist or one of several other denominations. This is a character trait. It is also possible to pick a specific patron god for various bonuses.

Characters of all three religions can take one wife only, but are allowed concubines, like pagans and Zoroastrians. Another great thing about the Indian religions is that they allow the designation of a favorite child as heir, regardless of the specific succession law (though abiding by the gender preference law, of course.) Lastly, and quite importantly, it's possible for players to switch between the three Indian religions (tentatively, once per lifetime at a steep Piety cost) in order to take advantage of their special mechanics when needed. Right, so those are most of the major commonalities. Of course, there are also some similarities in the kinds of events that characters of all three religions tend to get (but I'm saving that for a later dev diary!)

ck2_RoI_dd_02_De_Jure_Kingdoms.png

Hinduism is the most warlike of the three; Hindu rulers have access to the normal Holy War casus belli. In addition, they are allowed to raid neighboring provinces of non-Indian religions. Hindus, however, also need to deal with the caste system. All Hindus can be born into one of the three castes that we represent in the game; Brahmin, Kshatriya, or Vaishya. This is represented as a character trait. Priests are expected to be Brahmins, feudal rulers Kshatriyas and burghers Vaishyas. Marrying into the wrong caste - or worse - being the wrong caste, gives serious opinion penalties with other Hindus. Children born to mixed caste parents will get the lower of the two. Characters with no caste at all are the lowest of all - the untouchables. This system limits your marriage options and tends to cause strife in your realm. It is possible to get a higher caste trait through a special decision, but it is hard and costly.

Buddhists are represented as the most philosophically minded of the Indian religions. (While perhaps not entirely fair, they were historically known for their huge universities and libraries.) They don't have to worry about caste, but rulers who ever plan to switch to Hinduism might still want to take heed of it. Buddhists cannot raid and their Holy War CB is less powerful (currently, counties instead of duchies), but they do get a great bonus to Learning, meaning that they will have unmatched long-term technological progress - if they can survive...

Finally, we have Jainism, which is probably the most peaceful religion on the planet. For Jains, the concept of Ahimsa - non-violence - is the cornerstone of their faith. Thus, Jains do not have any kind of Holy War CB, and violent acts have more serious repercussions on Piety (called Karma for the Indian religions) and opinions. Too limiting? Perhaps, but there are some serious benefits as well; Jains can have much bigger demesnes, get a flat opinion bonus from their vassals, and basically don't have to worry about provincial revolts (though the effect is less on characters and provinces of non-Indian faiths.)

That's a brief summary of the new mechanics, but I should mention that although the information I've outlined above is true in the current build, it might change quite a lot for balance reasons. For example, it's rather tricky to make the three Indian religions equally beneficial, only suitable for different circumstances and play styles.

ck2_RoI_dd_02_De_Jure_Duchies.png

That's all for now. Until next week, folks!

(Regrettably, I have no relevant screenshots for you this time since a lot of the graphics is still missing. The ones I do have are of the de jure map modes in India, as promised.)
 
The caste system is definitely applicable to Hindus only, however many people who have converted from Hinduism to Islam or Christianity still follow the caste system as it more of a social and cultural system.

Religion in game represents the social and cultural systems as well, as everythings abstracted and lumped together.
But if the traits don't vanish on conversion, as the DD suggests they won't then that will be reflected, atleast if the modifiers don't up and vanish too.
 
So, any guesses on content of next dev diary which appears in 25h or so?

My guess is that it will showcase changes to existing map, with East Africa (and Nestorianism if Socotra has Nestorian ruler) given focus.
 
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Only the Irish and Brits will probably get this. Although I have to say that I have met a few Belgians who say it used to be on tv there as well as 2 Israeli fighter pilots re Israel...
 
Wow, really?! I heard that it was shown about 10 years ago or so but they had to pull it because the humour was just too out there. I guess you learn something new every day!
 
So, any guesses on content of next dev diary which appears in 25h or so?

My guess is that it will showcase changes to existing map, with East Africa (and Nestorianism if Socotra has Nestorian ruler) given focus.

It sounded like we are getting a dev-diary per week, so i think we should be getting one tomorrow. This dev-diary was posted last Tuesday.
 
I hope someone will read this and LP something like this for me:
Make a Gandhi dynasty with Jainism caste and conquer as much as possible. Why? I heard that in back in Civ 3 days Gandhi was a monster when controlled by AI. Nuking people and stuff. Writing this post I looked in google and it would seem that He still loves to nuke people even in Civ 5 o_O
 
But how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

It's a question to demonstrate if the other person understands the nature of angels (all spirit, therefore occupying no space), not a 'witty' atheist snark as the Reddit crowd might believe.
 
A great and massive expansion. But because of the extended map. I liked that they expanded the start date to older years or make playable some factions like religion heads , Hashashins ,... .
Maybe for the next expansions.
 
<snip>
The other issue is that learning in-game conflates two separate types of knowledge - the stuff we'd think of as humanities these days, like philosophy and history, that don't serve practical purposes; and technological advancements and developments. Buddhism can be associated with the former, as it can be considered to some extent a philosophical tradition as well as a religious tradition, due to its strong emphasis - in some sects and traditions - on logic, rhetoric, and so on, and from this I can see why they gave it a learning bonus, though it's still a bit wary for me.

Indeed, you have to consider how the game mechanics work and how the learning stat is represented ingame. Just as in European medieval times, the learning in CK2 pretty much represents the septem artes liberales, unifies Theology, Law and Medical Science etc. That way the decision to give Buddhists a learning bonus is reasonable.

The concept of "Hinduism" was an anachronism is this time period. <snip>
Hinduism is a kind of exonym, just as Buddhism. Is this something new to you? They were introduced by outsiders in order to classify. For Hindus and Buddhists alike I'd say the crucial point was whether you follow the Dhamma. Paradox found a way to represent this pretty well, when there is no heresies and opinion malus.

All the religions in the game are based on stereotypes rather than reality. I don't think vicious warlike human-sacrificing Norsemen or decadent Muslims are any more accurate than peaceful philosophical Buddhists.
First smart post in the thread. Thanks.


And with the caste system mechanic introduced into the game, I'd like to see it adapted for Europe to represent the division between the European nobility and the rest. It could also be used in pagan countries, to represent Norse thralldom and slavery etc. Maybe content for a future patch?
 
If Paradox did try some kind of cast/trait system for Europe it would need to be very carefully done so as not to screw things up or been generally poorly implemented.
 
Well India is 37.5 times larger than the isle of Britain, so I certainly don't see a problem with the current number of counties. Also that's just the Modern nation of India, which is a smaller area than the expanded part of the map. Also, much more densely populated, especially during that time, if you were to try and equalize populations sizes by counties, you'd easily need to at least double the number of counties.

But as it stands I'm pretty happy with the way they've made the map, if only they'd properly populated those courts, as it stands, it takes like 30 years to get the game going starting in India at 867.