Un-nouncing Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe

n00bypl4y3r said:

I understand that, but by the year 867 the Khazar ruling class and a good chunk of the population of populated areas like Itil had switched to more agrarian lifestyles. The area around Itil was described as being full of vineyards as early as the year 760. I don't see why Khazaria would have to start out on the same level as other Steppe nomads in an 867 start, though I do agree that it should be possible to play as other nomads and switch to more agrarian lives.

Also, I think a cool idea for nomadic countries would to be able to convert to a different religion to secure alliances. The Volga Bolghars did this when fighting Khazaria, converting to Islam to gain support from the Oghuz Turks.

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Again, it's not an obvious decision, but I'm still leaning towards them being nomadic. They would obviously have a lower Realm Nomadism than say the early Seljuks would, though.

Non-pagan nomads are absolutely possible. They'll suffer a yearly decrease to Realm Nomadism (a small one in the case of Islam and a large one in the case of Christianity), but they can overcome that with migrating and what not.

Cardinal Sin said:

Looks really nice and flavourful! I like it

Would this mean that western adventurers are also playable? Perhaps with a military camp instead on an orda. It would be so interesting to follow the footsteps of the Hautevilles.

I had an idea about nomadism. What if it is purely personal? The algorithm could be akin to prestige and piety. Your heir always only inherits a fraction of nomadism to simulate his difficulties at the beginning of the reign, but this could be mitigated if he is given land before he inherits, or if buildings are erected in the orda that ensure that a son inherits a higher percentage of your nomadism.

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Thank you! Right now the plan is *not* to expand the mechanic to unlanded adventurers, so that we can squeeze even more out of you have enough time to fully implement the mechanic. But certainly a direction we could go in at a future date!

Making Nomadism personal is rather interesting — it has the benefit of getting rid of the complexities when you inherit or lose a title. On the other hand, what the particular ruler thinks about nomadism doesn't necessarily reflect the broader picture — just because he doesn't want to be a nomad anymore doesn't mean that his people don't. The mechanic needs some thought, and I hope you and others can keep on contributing!

Caewil said:

Maybe auto-lower crown authority on succession or successful revolt, but allow a ruler to raise it more than once in his lifetime. A series of poor successions would break a horde, but a strong (and long-lived) ruler could pull it together.

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That's a possibility — or maybe just have a 50% chance that it will lower... But then again, I want the realm to potentially split up, not just for it to be more loosely governed. Really, if there were some sort of "Realm Prestige" mechanic, and if it dips below a certain amount it starts splintering apart.

verdas said:

Really stellar work. And I'm a big fan of the need to land brothers and sons, since that alone will seriously hamper larger empires (via the inevitable civil wars and weakening of royal demesne).

Of course, given the decadence system, Muslim hordes would become functionally impossible to play, since widespread landing of family is about the dumbest thing you can do. Maybe nomadism replaces decadence? It would make some since in light of Ibn Kahldun's whole decadence theory - (desert, in this case) nomads retain the true spirit of Islam, and only once they settle down to they become decadent. Nomadic Muslims should likewise miss out on the benifits (like schools of thought, turkish sucession, etc) of sedentary Muslims.

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Thanks! And yes, I realize that Muslim nomads would have to deal with two separate mechanics, which would be annoying. So I think your solution of just dumping Decadence is the best — though they are going to be fixing Decadence, hopefully (indeed, unintuitively, part of the impetus for these Dev Diaries was the announcement that Decadence was going to be tweaked, since it got me thinking "what would my idea for a better decadence be?")

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No Dev Diary today, but to soothe you, take a look at the new Tributary UI!

meertn said:

Really love the screenshots
You are making Paradox's work easy with detailed plans like this, they could even copy-paste the DD's when the time comes

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Thank you — that I could hope so much!

Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe — Dev Diary 7 — The Steppe Life

And we’re back! Today, we’ll be focusing on a few odds and ends having to do with the nomadic life in Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe.

Bargah/Orda
As some of you have been able to guess, nomads will have access to their very own special tribal holding, the Bargah (for Turkic nomads) and the Orda (for Mongolian ones). This special barony-level holding will work much like the Family Palace does in Crusading Rulers 2: Wow, much Doge, so Election, very Trade, preventing nomads from ever becoming truly “unlanded.” Unlike the new Campground holding, which can be built anywhere, you will only ever have a single Bargah/Orda. On the other hand, it will feature all sorts of exciting improvements, allowing you to create a Bargah or Orda worthy of the greatest Khan. Finally, if and when a nomadic tribe decides to settle down for good, its Bargah/Orda will be dissolved; — after all, Stephen I was hardly wandering around in a yurt after he was established as King of Hungary — however, you will recuperate 75% of the money you invested in your royal tent, as you repurpose and sell the relics of an older time, to embark on the exciting adventure that is feudalism.

Culture
Others among you have complained about ahistorical outcomes in which much of the Middle East and Russia is permanently Mongol-ized following the conquests of that group. Well fear now more! The Tributary system should already help mitigate this to an extent (as nomadic realms will prefer to simply collect gold from heavily-urbanized areas rather than rule them directly — we are also introducing some tweaks to the cultural system regarding nomads. Firstly, we are adding a veritable bevy of new melting pots — Tatar, Chagatai, Uzbek — to help show the slow cultural differentiation in nomadic empires.

Secondly, culture shifting will now depend heavily on Provincial Nomadism, as nomads will find it relatively easy to “culture hug” high-nomadism counties but will find it very difficult to impose their culture on low-nomadism areas. Indeed, highly urbanized counties will exert an opposite culture-pull, converting nomadic overlords to the indigenous cultural and sedentary ways. (Conversely, sedentarized realms will find it nigh impossible to bring their own culture to the steppe, and will find ruling the wild Steppe a difficult prospect indeed, but more on that later).

Decisions! Events! Decisions that lead to Events!
Finally, Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe will feature a whole slew of new events inspired by the history and societies of the Steppe. These include simple, one-off events, but also more complex event chains, modeled off of the Genghis-Jamukha rift, for instance, or the life of Ivan I “Moneybags.”

Probably the most important of these will be the Migration event chain, something that formed one of the fundamental pillars of nomadic society. Every few years, during which time your herds of goats, sheep, and horses have been happily munching away the available grass and shrubs, you will have to move on to new pastures for your livestock to graze. When this time approaches, nomadic rulers will be able to take the “Prepare the Migration” decision (and will be urged to do so by a high priority reminder). Moving this mass of people and animals is no easy feat, however, and may exacerbate existing tensions within the tribe. Furthermore, these migrations themselves tend to be fraught with uncertainties, and will present players everything from unexpected windfalls to disasters.





Catch us next time for the final Dev Diary of Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe (probably)!


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This Dev Diary brought to you in part by ghengilhar, Cardinal Sin, JodelDiplom, and Konstantinos XV.
With so many people, no wonder it's number one!

JodelDiplom said:

Would Nomads really have to migrate all the time? AFAIK they would usually stick to their lands, and just migrate seasonally between summer and winter pastures (which might only have a distance of ~40-80 km).

Weren't the bigger migrations (across CK2-provinces) more like forced reactions to invasions or droughts?

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Portal said:

Personally I favour the Abandon County system.

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Hold your horses! This isn't a replacement for the Abandon County system —*this "migration" doesn't have you leave your lands. Rather, it is a flavor decision and event-chain, meant to simulate pastoral (semi-)nomadism. As you note, if this were real life, you would have to do it every spring to get to your summer pastures and every fall to get to your winter pastures, but that seemed like too much micromanagement. For gameplay reasons, then, these bi-annual migrations have been consolidated into larger ones, that will happen every ~5 years or so. But thanks for your interest!

leksu said:

You should get yourself a new graphics card. The screenshots look almost as if they were handdrawn.

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Ah, this is one of the stealth additions to the DLC: now you can choose between three visual "themes": hand-drawn, funky, or post-modern.

eranam said:

This really looks very good. Paradox should have expanded on the steppes like you are doing instead of adding another subcontinent that fails to be fleshed out in a satisfactory way.

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SBolshevik said:

Two things:
1. The steppe is getting expanded east, which is logical, due to the fact that the map is moving east.
2. Eustacethemonk is not really making anything to my understanding. Well, except these fake DDs with a small pinch of humor.

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solamyas said:

I love it except one thing, i would use Otag/Otak or Orda/Ordu instead of Bargah.

My seggestion for nomads for Umbra Spherae a year ago:

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Thank you! As regards Bargah/Otak/Orda, let me say from the outset that these would all be the same type of holding, with the only difference being the localization. That said, I was under the impression that the Seljuks called their peripatetic royal audience tent a "bargah," a holdover form their steppe ways, and that "otak" simply refered to a regular (albeit large) tent. But I don't actually speak any of these languages, so I could very well be mistaken.

solamyas said:

Which DLC is this?:huh:

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The accompanying sprite pack.

Anyway, returning to our tent discussion...

solamyas said:

Are you sure? It isn't used in modern Turkish but i remember Bargah as stationary palace. And it is a loan word from Persian so even if i am mistaken it can't be used for non-oghuz/non-mongol Altaic cultures. In modern Turkish and Azeri oda/otaq means room, i dont know its modern use in other Turkic languages. In Ottoman Turkish, Sultan's military campign tent's name is "otağ". In the old legends only important persons have an otag.

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Again, I'm no medieval tent expert, but I find:

"The bargah is well attested as a tent of state in the Seljuk period."
"[By 1255,] Bārgāh had come to be the usual term for a ruler's tent of state, which was used in combination with the trellis tent as a private chamber" ("Tent." In The Grove Encyclopedia of Islamic Art and Architecture.)
"If one turns to contemporary record, one does not find a single comprehensive term for court, but rather a variety of related words. Ibn Bībī commonly uses bārgāh and dārgāh to refer to the 'inner' and 'outer' courts of what could be considered an imperial complex."

But then if I look up "otağ," I get all kinds of things ("a central figure, usually representing a ruler beneath an otag..."; "the Ottoman Turkish otag (domed, cylindric imperial tent)"; "Otak or otag was a comprehensive term for the royal quarters") so I don't know anymore.

I guess what we'll have to do is release multiple separate DLCs to fully render the breathtaking diversity of nomadic ceremonial tents.

aragonFTW said:

THANK YOU!!!! Disabling rendered portraits was my favourite feature in Crusading Rulers 2: Yellow Peril Pack Animals Sprite Pack, finally the past will come to life as I imagine it really was before they invented computers and colours.

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I'm glad you like it! It's always peeved me how ahistorical all these games are by depicting everything in color, when we know colors weren't invented until the 1930s.

Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe — Dev Diary 8 — Sedentary Realms

I can’t believe how quickly the time has galloped by, but this is the last Dev Diary for Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe. Today we’ll be seeing what the expansion has in store for sedentary characters — just because the expansion is focused on nomads doesn’t mean that we’ve forgotten about them!

As mentioned in previous Dev Diaries, there will be a slew of new diplomatic actions to model sedentary-nomadic interactions. Sedentary states will have the chance to hire nomads as allies in war, try to buy them off by offering tribute, or, if the nomads happen to be their vassals, demand that they abandon their nomadic ways and settle. Note that we are also expanding the new Tributary mechanics to allow Muslim and Pagan states to demand tribute as well — indeed, a powerful Sultan could force his nomadic neighbors to start paying /him/ protection money.

Similarly, if a settled empire feels that the unruly nomads need to be reminded of their place, it will have access to the new Pacification casus belli. These can be waged against nomadic kingdoms, forcing a ten year truce and causing the enemy nomadic ruler to lose a great deal of prestige (as well as likely causing revolts in his realm). Alternatively, if the settled player would rather keep his troops at home (and not face the steep attrition penalties, which will be discussed below), he can always send out his chancellor to one of the more powerful vassals in the nomadic realm and try to encourage him to take his rightful place as Khan — a few sweet words and golden trinkets can go a long way towards destabilizing a nomadic empire.

Now, the broad plains of the Steppe won’t be the only place settled characters might find nomads: sedentary kingdoms in the Maghreb, Arabia, and a few other places of high Nomadism will notice that some of their counties contain nomadic Campgrounds. These represent the minor but fiercely independent tribes of these regions, and as in real history, players will have to find some way of dealing with these independent groups, either by finding some sort of accommodation with the nomads, attempting to woo them over to their side, or trying to drive them out by force.

However, just as nomads will find it hard to impose their ways on heavily sedentarized regions, settled kingdoms will find it difficult (and not terribly profitable) to establish any real effective rule over the Steppe. Counties with high Provincial Nomadism will incur heavy attrition on settled armies, will resist attempts at cultural conversion, will pay lower taxes, and will aggressively seek independence whenever possible. Thus sedentary realms will never be able to fully domesticate the wild Steppe, but will rather attempt to keep it somewhat tamed, or at least docile, whether by paying tribute, sowing dissent, or forcible pacification.

That’s it! Be sure to stay tuned for the release of Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe to take advantage of all these exciting new features discussed in these Dev Diaries, and more! And maybe even a bonus changelog!


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