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Thread: Un-nouncing Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe

  1. #1

    Un-nouncing Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe

    Disclaimer: As you may quickly gather, this is not in fact a real DLC announcement and I am not in fact a Paradox Interactive or Paradox Development Studio employee. This post is not intended as a criticism of their recently announced expansion into India nor of their DLC policy in general. Rather, it is my vision of how steppe nomads could be better represented within the framework of Crusader Kings II, something I feel is particular relevant given the upcoming map extension. As such, anyone should feel free to steal any and all of the idea listed below.



    BOUVET ISLAND — January 31, 2014 — Saddle your horse, grab your bow, and ride across the Steppe in search of plunder and glory! Today, Oxymoron Interactive and Oxymoron Development Studio announce Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe, the seventh expansion for the partially-acclaimed strategy/make-believe game Crusading Rulers 2. Already in the middle of the current expansion, Crusading Rulers 2: Subcontinental Maharajas, the new Warriors of the Steppe will offer gamers all the excitement of an expansion, within an expansion!

    For a brief, tantalizing hint of all the fabulous new features in store, be sure to read the exciting list of bullet points below:
    • Nomads!
    • A new nomad-specific holding, with its own unique improvements!
    • Tribal Patrimonialism!
    • Tributaries!
    • Did we mention, nomads!

    DEVELOPER DIARIES

    Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe - Dev Diary 1 - The Steppe
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post16821038

    Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe - Dev Diary 2 - Provincial Nomadism
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post16821547

    Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe - Dev Diary 3 - Realm Nomadism
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post16822106

    Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe - Dev Diary 4 - Steppe Diplomacy
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post16825001

    Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe - Dev Diary 5 - Nomadic Warfare
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post16830112

    Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe - Dev Diary 6 - Tribal Government
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post16834798

    Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe - Dev Diary 7 - The Steppe Life
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post16856912

    Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe - Dev Diary 8 - Sedentary Realms
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post16898153



    Legal Notice: All individuals, products, and corporations depicted within this thread are works of fiction. Any resemblance to real individuals, products, or corporations, living or dead, is purely coincidental, and is certainly not part of some sort of ploy to evade copyright restrictions by using similar-sounding yet subtly distinct names. Seriously, don’t sue me. I don’t have any money anyway.
    Last edited by eustacethemonk; 14-02-2014 at 00:01. Reason: Update update update

  2. #2
    i love the taste of saddle on my horse meat

    and i would pay many sheep for this dlc

  3. #3
    Hellgate to the Netherworld Portal's Avatar
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    I want a Patrician Elective sort of system where leader Chieftains head Tribes or Families, and they vote for a Paramount Chief.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Portal View Post
    I want a Patrician Elective sort of system where leader Chieftains head Tribes or Families, and they vote for a Paramount Chief.
    i think that would work for some more established hordes, but i think successions shouldnt be hugely different from feudal stuff. its the other mechanics that are more important.

    also, nomadic features should not be tied to religion, but on the holding type. if your ruler starts with a horde as his primary holding, he would be a nomadic ruler regardless of his religion. so you could have muslim and even catholic hordes, not just tengri. it would b possible to settle some how through a process, though, and become a feudal ruler.
    Last edited by victimizer; 31-01-2014 at 08:06.

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by victimizer View Post
    i think that would work for some more established hordes, but i think successions shouldnt be hugely different from feudal stuff. its the other mechanics that are more important.

    also, nomadic features should not be tied to religion, but on the holding type. if your ruler starts with a horde as his primary holding, he would be a nomadic ruler regardless of his religion. so you could have muslim and even catholic hordes, not just tengri. it would b possible to settle some how through a process, though, and become a feudal ruler.
    Yes, non-pagan nomads!

  7. #7

    Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe — Dev Diary 1 — The Steppe

    Before the internet, before airplanes and automobiles, before railways and telegraphs, there was one vast highway that united the two distant ends of Eurasia: the Steppe. Spanning over 8000 km, from Manchuria in the east to Moldavia in the west, this flat, grassy expanse has for millennia enabled the movement of goods and peoples over vast distances, whether for travel, trade, or conquest.

    Far removed from the great urban centers of both the east and west, there emerged here a mode of life that was entirely unto itself, one with its own customs, institutions, and rhythm. Here, it was said that the inhabitants learned to ride a horse before they could walk, whose legs allegedly curved slightly outward from a life spent almost entirely in the saddle. It has seen the rise and fall of many great tribal confederations and empires, and it has given birth to some of the great conquerors of history, whose names still evoke shivers to this day — Attila, Genghis, and Timur.

    ~~~~


    Trying to depict this vibrant world of the steppe in its own terms within the Crusading Rulers 2 framework has been a challenge, one which has required a thorough reevaluation of the most fundamental aspects of the game. Just as in our previous expansion, Crusading Rulers 2: Deities Which Came Before Current Deities, we wanted the revamped groups to feature their own unique, exciting playstyle — and I believe that we’ve done it.

    First things first: we’re introducing a new holding type, the Campground. This offers nomads a little bit of everything, from revenue to technology points, but its primary emphasis is on troops. They are also significantly cheaper than any of the other holding types. These can built just like any of the normal, sedentary holdings, and feature their own unique upgrades, including everything from shrines to burial mounds. If one wants to remain nomadic, this should be the primary type of holding one is constructing (but more on that later).

    Next, we’ve completely shaken up the way titles work for nomads, starting at the county level, the basic building block of realms. Now, as you may well be aware, nomads moved around. After much consideration, we decided that the best way to implement this was to have nomads be able to abandon counties (click on the title and instead of destroy, you’ll see “Abandon”). When you abandon a county, the game automatically generates a new nomadic tribe to take the newly-vacant land.



    Now you may be asking yourself, why would one want to abandon a province? Well first, the steppe lands are prone to yearly variations, and what was once a productive, revenue-generating province may actually turn into a revenue-drain. Alternatively, you may be fleeing larger and hostile neighbors. Finally, you may want to boost your Realm Nomadism (to be discussed in a future Dev Diary), as every county abandoned nets a +10% boost to Realm Nomadism.

    Moving up the title tree, all the higher titles for nomads (High Chief, Khan, and Khagan) are titular and do not assimilate land. This means that forming any of these do not require any particular territories, only that you be of the previous tier and possess requisite number of holdings, prestige, and gold. You need to have a realm size of 12 to become a High Chief, 50 to become a Khan, and 150 to become a Khagan. This also means, however, that nomads do not have access to any of the De Jure casus belli.

    Finally, we’ve tweaked the way dynasties function for nomads. Instead of talking about dynasties of directly related individuals, the basic unit of nomad realms are Tribes. In practical terms, the difference isn’t that great, since tribes will for the most part be composed of members of the same family. Every so often, though, you may get a warrior who wishes to join your Tribe, and if you accept, he then becomes part of your “family.” This way, the Tribe you are born into isn’t necessarily the one you’ll end up in for the rest of your life, something which adds a level of flexibility and dynamism to nomadic gameplay.

    Well, that was all quite a mouthful. Stick around in this thread to learn more about Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe, next time!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portal View Post
    I want a Patrician Elective sort of system where leader Chieftains head Tribes or Families, and they vote for a Paramount Chief.
    And that is how we solve the issue of Nomads/tribes, congratulations.
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  10. #10
    Meh
    Serve your Aztec overlords!

  11. #11
    I'm rather gratified to see that I'm not alone in being some sort of nomad-loving freak. So really, all comments/questions/snide remarks welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by Portal View Post
    I want a Patrician Elective sort of system where leader Chieftains head Tribes or Families, and they vote for a Paramount Chief.
    Quote Originally Posted by kemmy23 View Post
    And that is how we solve the issue of Nomads/tribes, congratulations.
    This is interesting, and I had thought about something similar (though not quite as elegant). However, in my mind, the defining characteristic of steppe government was familial sovereignty. Besides, though tribal confederations were quite decentralized, they often did have a quasi-established ruling dynasty/tribe that passed from generation to generation. But this certainly isn't the end of the story, and I would love to hear more about this, or other things.

  12. #12

    Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe - Dev Diary 2 - Provincial Nomadism

    For the next two Dev Diaries, we’re going to be discussing two exciting new mechanics in the Warriors of the Steppe expansion. So don’t you gallop off anywhere!

    The first one I’d like to introduce is Provincial Nomadism. Each county now has a value associated with it, indicating how suitable that particular province is for the nomadic lifestyle. These range from very suitable (+2) to neutral (0) to very unsuitable (-4), and can be easily seen through the new Nomadic map-mode (with the horse icon). This is calculated through a variety of factors, including the province’s terrain type, its tech level, how developed its holdings are, and some RNG.

    This last point is important, that because of the randomness factor, the Nomadism of any given province will vary from year to year. This means that if you want to maintain your traditional nomadic lifestyle, or, more concretely, if your herds and flocks are starting to die off, you may find yourself pulling up your stakes and searching for greener pastures (that is, abandoning a particular county).

    That said, characters do have the ability to at least try to alter the Provincial Nomadism of any given county. Raiding has the potential to increase Provincial Nomadism (both indirectly, by destroying buildings and holdings, as well as directly), as does constructing Campgrounds. On the flip side, sedentary characters can attempt to decrease a province’s Nomadism by constructing new buildings and particularly new holdings, and by converting Campgrounds into settled holdings (only possible after technology level 4). There is only so much you can do to change local geography, though, and so you’ll have a much harder time nomadizing Cornwall than Shirvan. Finally, you may have noticed that the Provincial Nomadism numbers do not balance out (+2 vs. -4) and are skewed against nomadism. This means that, generally speaking, nomadic realms cannot directly hold large cities and continue to stay nomadic (but more on that later).

    Now we’ll only see the full impact of Provincial Nomadism when we discuss Realm Nomadism (in the next Dev Diary), but suffice to say that the aggregate of your Provincial Nomadism is important to how nomadic your kingdom stays. So stay tuned!

  13. #13
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    I can already see this DLC is going to flop. Bad move from Oxymoron - I mean, how can they expand their map when MUSLIM rulers are already purchasing large amounts of grain alcohol from Ireland just to outfit their armies? I'm sorry, but I spent upwards of $4 supporting this company and if they want to continue screwing around instead of following the project layout I kindly emailed them then they've just lost a customer.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by the bishop View Post
    i can already see this dlc is going to flop. Bad move from oxymoron - i mean, how can they expand their map when muslim rulers are already purchasing large amounts of grain alcohol from ireland just to outfit their armies? I'm sorry, but i spent upwards of $4 supporting this company and if they want to continue screwing around instead of following the project layout i kindly emailed them then they've just lost a customer.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sealy300 View Post
    que?
    Sometimes our fans get so excited that they start frothing at the mouth. But onward and upward!

  16. #16

    Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe — Dev Diary 3 — Realm Nomadism

    Today we’ll finish what we started in the previous Dev Diary, and talk about Realm Nomadism. As you may be able to guess, Realm Nomadism (denoted by the little horse icon in the top right) is an indication of how nomadic your realm is as a whole, how much your people adhere to the ways and traditions of the nomadic lifestyle, and it fluctuates from year to year. As the names suggest, Provincial Nomadism plays directly into Realm Nomadism: essentially, you take the average of all your provinces’ Nomadism levels, and add that to your Realm Nomadism, bringing it up or down. Thus, a nomadic empire holding a large number of settled provinces may find itself settling down within a couple of generations. So, while the great cities of the Middle East and Europe may seem like alluring targets, it may be best to keep them as Tributaries than conquering them outright, if one intends to remain nomadic. This is not to say that geography is the end all-be all (recall that you can affect your provinces’ Nomadism levels), but still, you’ll find it difficult to maintain a nomadic state in, for instance, northern Italy.

    There are other factors that influence Realm Nomadism as well. Remaining pagan grants a yearly increase in Realm Nomadism, while converting causes its decrease, (rather significantly in the case of Christianity, much more modestly in the case of Islam). Constructing Campgrounds, orchestrating raids, organizing great hunts—all of these increase Realm Nomadism. Building and upgrading non-Campground holdings, neglecting raids, and otherwise acting like a landed ruler, on the other hand, decreases Realm Nomadism. Additionally, every so often, you will get messages from your settled subjects complaining about your nomadic ones, or vice versa (My Khan, the nomads have been trampling our fields/the farmers have been stealing from our herds). Whose side you choose to support will affect Realm Nomadism, as well as the relevant characters’ opinions.



    Now this is all fine and dandy, but what does Realm Nomadism actually do? Well, at the upper limit of 100% Realm Nomadism, you gain a +15% morale bonus, +10% income from Campgrounds, and benefit from +10 relations with fellow nomads. On the other hand, you also receive a -10% income penalty from sedentary holdings and -10 relations with sedentary characters. So it has its benefits and drawbacks. On the other end of the spectrum, if Realm Nomadism falls to 0%, the kingdom transforms into a normal, sedentary state. Indeed, sedentary rulers have the option of demanding that their nomadic vassals settle—whether they comply is of course an entirely different matter.

    That’s it for right now. Join us next time for the next thrilling installment of Crusading Rulers 2: Warriors of the Steppe: The Dev Diaries!

  17. #17
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    Copying indian tribes of EU4 into CK2 ?

    Doesn't look like a very fitting idea for CK2, but that's why it will probably be done.
    I wouldn't be surprised anymore.

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    Rantrantrant this game is called Crusading Rulers rantrantrant I want it to focus only and exclusively on kings that went crusading rantrantrant how dare you do something on an area I do not know much about and am to effing lazy to find out about and perhaps get interested in rantrantrant excuse me while I'm away fanboying over Richard the Lionheart and Baldwin IV. of Jerusalem and their western feudal deal.

    Now, seriously - awesome!

    However, how is "Nomadism" going to work if you change realms (ie. being booted out of the title of the Khan of Cumania and only staying some duke-level nomad)? Also, what if your son, who is holding a realm with low nomadism, inherits your high-nomadism realm?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Sin View Post
    Rantrantrant this game is called Crusading Rulers rantrantrant I want it to focus only and exclusively on kings that went crusading rantrantrant how dare you do something on an area I do not know much about and am to effing lazy to find out about and perhaps get interested in rantrantrant excuse me while I'm away fanboying over Richard the Lionheart and Baldwin IV. of Jerusalem and their western feudal deal.
    Actually I think you'll find it's only called Crusading Rulers until you unpause the game, then it can be anything that I want it to be.

  20. #20
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    Well. The Patrician mansion is pretty much a nomadic holding. It's a barony that follows whatever's your capital, and if you have no land, then it sits in your mother republic's capital county.

    I suppose nomands could be able able to move their stuff around like that, technically.
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