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unmerged(463662)

Lt. General
4 Badges
Mar 11, 2012
1.487
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  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Rome Gold
I should have written this post a long time ago. If I had I would have been able to written with more detail and more clarity.

I was a beta tester on March of the Eagles. I can’t remember if my non-disclosure agreement says if I can relate my feelings about this game or not, or even if it is still in force. But if this post helps Paradox by informing one future beta tester, then it is worth it.

I remember in great detail the first time I played a Paradox game. I was living in the middle of nowhere with not a lot to do. I made a friend, who excitedly gave me cracked copies of Civ 5 and EU3. I was not in the slightest interested in EU3, I was a Civ fan. I had been playing Civ since 1991. But Civ 5 stank. It was the first Civ game I found… boring. Maybe it had really shitty beta testers. Beta testers like me.

I fairly reluctantly loaded up Europa Universalis 3, more because of his almost unbelievable high praise than anything else. I remember thinking the name was stupid and pretentious. Come on? I have a smattering of Latin, but what a name?

But, I was hooked. It was exactly the kind of game I had always wished to play. The game I had designed in my head many many times before. I bought it the very next day and I have not played Civ since.


I saw the call-out for beta testers for March of the Eagles and applied. Apart from lots of bug reports for EU3 I had never tested a game in quite this way before. I was successful. Thank you Paradox and many apologies.

I played March of the Eagles for maybe 30 hours in total. I tried very hard to like it. I did not. There was a game in there somewhere, but what I was playing was just… boring.

I was very clear about my feelings. I was bored playing the three of four countries I tested. Very bored. Nothing really grabbed my attention.

So I went on to the beta-tester forums to write about my experiences, but in the end I did not write what I planned to write.

It seemed to me that every other beta tester loved the game. Absolutely loved the game. Were we playing different games? How could they like something that I hated so much? We’re all nerds here, right?

Then I remembered that I had played Victoria 2, and that although it was more enjoyable than March of the Eagles, I still found it less accessible than EU3. It might be because I have less brain cells than the average Paradoxian…

I hated MotE, but feeling that I was in a minority of one, I buried those feelings and wrote a few posts based on the gameplay bugs I had encountered and not the real experience bug that was the biggest problem.

I tried to play a couple more games, couldn’t, and just accepted that as I could not see the same amount of awesome in the game as my colleagues, I probably was not a natural beta tester. Best to leave that to the experts.

So I did. Life got busy, and beta testing dropped out of my mind. Then the game came out and it unfortunately has not done well.

Maybe if I had said, “Sorry guys, I find this game really boring for this, this and this reason,” it might have had an impact. Maybe that post would have encouraged other quiet beta testers who felt the same to talk about their experiences, then the beta testers might have developed into two camps, those who saw the awesome, and those who did not.

But I didn’t, and neither did anyone else who felt the same way, whoever they might be.

So for those people who have bought this game, those people who enjoy this game and wonder why there is no support and no expansions for this game, it is partly because of beta testers like me.

I did not realize it, but I represented a demographic, I am in the likes EU, half likes CK2, does not like V2 and MotE section of the Paradox games Venn diagram. But because people like me were too quiet, the developers never got to find out about our unvoiced opinions until after the game was released.

When you make something yourself, whether its a story, a youtube video or a game, it’s almost impossible to get an objective perspective, this creation is your baby. This is where beta testers are really useful. They can point out that your baby has ugly ears and a funny smell. Painful, but sometimes, it helps to know these things. In my beta testing reports, I might have mentioned the ears, but I kept quiet about the smell.


Why did I write this?

If you want to become a beta tester for Paradox, remember you not only represent yourself, but also people like you. If you don’t talk honestly about your experiences, you help build a blind spot, but you also take a place on the beta-testing team from someone who might give more valuable advice.
 
If you want to become a beta tester for Paradox, remember you not only represent yourself, but also people like you. If you don’t talk honestly about your experiences, you help build a blind spot, but you also take a place on the beta-testing team from someone who might give more valuable advice.

I agree with this. I do not share your opinion of March of the Eagles, but I think that when you are a beta tester you should be clear about your experiences. Clearly, Paradox games are not suited to everybody, and if you like some games you don't have to like all games. Maybe, if you said that you never liked MotE but above all why you didn't like it, this game had looked different.

Personally, I think that MotE is a great game, as long as you keep in mind what it's intended to be: a war game dedicated to the Napoleonic era. Economic parts were intentionally left out. I think that most people expected a Europa Universalis in the Napoleonic era, but this game is smaller in it's scope.

Anyway, like I said before, not everybody has to like every game of Paradox if they like one of them. But maybe Paradox created a wrong view of this game in the development phase, so that if it was clearer what this game is about, more people would have bought it/loved it. This game has a lot of potential and it's a pity it's no longer developed.
 
I think this was supposed to be a AGEOD game anyway but they parted from Paradox. I think if it had been a Paradox game from the start it would have been much better.

Respect to you for writing this and being honest about your experience.
 
Thanks for sharing your experience. I too was a beta for a couple of Paradox games - HOI2 and the original Vic. I also have been a beta for some other companies in the past - Sierra and Blizzard. The clear difference among the companies is that Paradox welcomes and incorporates suggestions, input and information.

While playing the Sierra and Blizzard games, I posted my impressions and I suppose it helped their devs decide on some final tweaks to their product. But while working on Vic and HoI2 I was encouraged to not only offer my reactions to how the game played, but to submit ideas and information that would address specific problems or omissions. (A lot of my input for Vic I can still see in Vic2.)

I appreciate that my observations and suggestions as a beta were given serious consideration and respect by the development team, and greatly regret that changes in my real life meant that my time for Paradox games had to become no more than a pastime. Anyone who is a beta for Paradox has an opportunity to contribute. And it may make the difference between a game which is long-lasting or just a flash in the pan.
 
Personally, I think that MotE is a great game, as long as you keep in mind what it's intended to be: a war game dedicated to the Napoleonic era. Economic parts were intentionally left out. I think that most people expected a Europa Universalis in the Napoleonic era, but this game is smaller in it's scope.

If something is "great", you shouldn't have to make excuses for it. If you're making excuses for it, then something is wrong.

When you make something yourself, whether its a story, a youtube video or a game, it’s almost impossible to get an objective perspective, this creation is your baby. This is where beta testers are really useful. They can point out that your baby has ugly ears and a funny smell. Painful, but sometimes, it helps to know these things. In my beta testing reports, I might have mentioned the ears, but I kept quiet about the smell.


Why did I write this?

If you want to become a beta tester for Paradox, remember you not only represent yourself, but also people like you. If you don’t talk honestly about your experiences, you help build a blind spot, but you also take a place on the beta-testing team from someone who might give more valuable advice.

This is a problem in beta-testing where the beta-testers are just as fantatical about the game as the developers. The EvW crowd should probably take note.
 
An interesting story. I think that you were a bit too shy, too conformist. Don't feel bad, at least you can learn a lesson from this. It's hard to say what kind of an impact your opinion and the opinion of other beta testers like you would make, but expressing your own feelings even if the other people think differently is an important quality :). Cheers, mate.
 
I agree, although I honestly can't comprehend how someone could find Vicky 2 too inaccessible when the game automates most of the most complicated functions for you. Not liking it is totally fair game, but I don't really get where all this stuff about it being overcomplicated comes from.
 
I agree, although I honestly can't comprehend how someone could find Vicky 2 too inaccessible when the game automates most of the most complicated functions for you. Not liking it is totally fair game, but I don't really get where all this stuff about it being overcomplicated comes from.
Regardless whether he was right or wrong about Vicky II, it wasn't the heart of the discussion. Let's just stick to the OP.
 
Maybe with the end of the MM game, Paradox hurried EU4 and MotE became rushed into release. It feels a rushed game anyway.

In my humble opinion this game was sold to the wrong crowd. Not that a EU fan couldn't enjoy the game (I enjoyed), but there are so many complains about the short time spam, the lack of cores gained and so many things a player came from HoI would find absolute normal.

At least for me the game always felt short of explaining its mechanics, especially in army composition. I tried to build the best armies but all looked the same, then I tried historical formations but this didn't make sense too, in the end I was just randomizing everything,.
 
Eu4 was rushed? I thought the release was done well.
 
I beta a non=paradox game years ago. Loved doing the beta. But then found that by doing the tooke that "new game" experience away from me. And didn't like the game half as much as I would have without doing the beta.
 
I beta a non=paradox game years ago. Loved doing the beta. But then found that by doing the tooke that "new game" experience away from me. And didn't like the game half as much as I would have without doing the beta.

This is a good point. You lose that "new car smell".
 
I think this shows the importance of Beta testers, no matter whether they really like or really don't like a game need to speak up. Its one thing to fanatically like the game, but you need to be quite robotic about what didn't work in it or how to make a game more challenging/more user friendly etc.

I liked MotE, I liked that it wasn't straight out of the box PDX look, it played and felt different to normal, more fluidness to it. Its a shame the AGEOD/Paradox link didn't last long, I think some more fusion stuff would have advanced PDX style games.

I've applied for beta testing in PDX games before but unfortunately never been chosen :( I think I've played enough PDX games now where that "new car smell" doesn't exist anymore.
 
I really like this game. It was however extremely complex and difficult to get into and I had no such difficulties in titles like Hearts of Iron 3 or Victoria 2. So yeah this game needs quite a lot of commitment before it becomes enjoyable.
 
It's great to see such a positive reaction to this thread!

Interesting OP, I was in exactly the same place as you and followed the same path. I share your shame.

A conspirator unmasked! Thanks for speaking up!

Maybe if I had said, “Sorry guys, I find this game really boring for this, this and this reason,” it might have had an impact. Maybe that post would have encouraged other quiet beta testers who felt the same to talk about their experiences, then the beta testers might have developed into two camps, those who saw the awesome, and those who did not.

But I didn’t, and neither did anyone else who felt the same way, whoever they might be.


For aspiring beta testers out there: it's always harder to speak up when you feel that your opinion is different to the majority opinion, but as that well known shoe maker says, just do it!
 
If you want to become a beta tester for Paradox, remember you not only represent yourself, but also people like you. If you don’t talk honestly about your experiences, you help build a blind spot, but you also take a place on the beta-testing team from someone who might give more valuable advice.
And sometimes if you do talk honestly about your thoughts on a certain aspect of a game, you get abuse from a former developer. ;)

I appreciate your post and I think you seem like a nice guy, but I would not call you a poor beta tester. It sounds like everyone else was wrongly - and the poor sales and general inactivity on this sub-forum would certainly confirm this - heaping praise on what was ultimately a vacuous and hollow game. It was released at a discount price and played by some of the developers on a live stream for a single MP campaign, but after that was never really mentioned again. I suspect Paradox cut their losses with this one rather early on. Sengoku Mk II.

Sometimes, if you try to swim against the tide you'll just drown. Don't feel bad about it.

Thanks for the post, by the way. It was a fascinating read, but perhaps not for the reason you had originally intended.
 
Well, it was kinda a quick money grab from salvaged AGEOD stuff. I wanted this game to be good so I bought it. Nobody else did. I still wish I could play this in multiplayer at some point, it could be good there.