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Thread: 1.4 - Diplomacy

  1. #1
    Johan's Home Account Paradox Dev Team Balor's Avatar
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    1.4 - Diplomacy

    - Succession Wars are no longer automatic.
    When a country have the chance to form a union with each other, the strongest of the new overlords rivals and/or nations with a royal marriage or same dynasty, have the opportunity to challenge them in a succession war.

    # Diplomacy
    - Cancelling vassalization will now create a truce with the released state
    - Cancelling vassalization now only results in losing 25 prestige (no stability hit)
    - Royal marriages will not break if a regent dies.
    - Subjects no longer get expansion cb's.
    - Subjects to a player can not become lucky nations.
    - Subject nations can no longet sell provinces

    # War & Peace
    - If you send a stabhitting peaceoffer, your callforpeace penalty is reset.
    - Scripting separate badboy_factor and prestige_factor for defender in wargoal now works
    - Rescripted all wargoals that use separate attacker/defender settings
    - wargoals are now applied at all cases in peacescore calculations.
    - Release Nation and Annex now deducts provinces ceded properly when calculating final peacescore.
    - CORECLAIM_PEACE_COST_DIP_FRACTION in two separate cost reductions
    - CORE_PEACE_COST_DIP_FRACTION now gives 20% reduction
    - Not possible to call to arms if they are already called
    - If you are a daimyo and force another daimyo to release another daimyo, then that daimyo will become a proper vassal of Japan now.
    - Making a country a protectorate will now break all their alliances

  2. #2
    No changes in WS cost of provinces? Guess you are stuck with fighting world war 0 over two provinces. And I guess I have to find myself a new game to play.

  3. #3
    cool, I always thought it was weird that a country would destabilize if peacefully giving up a vassal.

  4. #4
    - Subjects to a player can not become lucky nations.
    Well, there goes my strategy of abusing Lucky Muscovy as a vassal. Though given they still make a good vassal due to their forcelimit bonus.

    - If you are a daimyo and force another daimyo to release another daimyo, then that daimyo will become a proper vassal of Japan now.
    There is a bug where I, a Western country, forced Japan to release a Daimyo, and it automatically became a vassal of Japan.
    I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles

  5. #5
    Field Marshal calvinhobbeslik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roman566 View Post
    No changes in WS cost of provinces? Guess you are stuck with fighting world war 0 over two provinces. And I guess I have to find myself a new game to play.
    AE is nerfed so you don't have to fight massive coalitions anymore.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal TheBloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    - Succession Wars are no longer automatic.
    When a country have the chance to form a union with each other, the strongest of the new overlords rivals and/or nations with a royal marriage or same dynasty, have the opportunity to challenge them in a succession war.
    Great news! Can you define 'strongest'? Is this military, does it using the same calculation as Military Power Diplo modifier or War leader change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    - Cancelling vassalization will now create a truce with the released state
    - Cancelling vassalization now only results in losing 25 prestige (no stability hit)
    Good, I always thought the costs of breaking vassalisation were way too high. Makes sense to put a truce in, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    - Subject nations can no longet sell provinces
    Just to be absolutely, 1000% sure - they can still BUY them, right?? We can still sell provinces to our subject nations?

    I know what you said is clear, just want to be absolutely certain given how critical this is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    - wargoals are now applied at all cases in peacescore calculations.
    Good!

    Any word on what happens when you vassalise a nation with existing wars? Do they peace out? Or is new overlord still called into the war? If so, do any of the fixes, or any other fixes not mentioned, result in the overlord not automatically calling all his allies which results in breaking all his alliances and massive stab hit?

    Or is that what this fixes? :

    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    - Not possible to call to arms if they are already called
    My EU4 Mods:

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  7. #7
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    What's a protectorate?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by calvinhobbeslik View Post
    AE is nerfed so you don't have to fight massive coalitions anymore.
    And? I could deal with AE in 1.3, I could not deal with the fact that I can only ask for three maybe four provinces every time I win a damn war by carpet sieging the entire enemy nation.

  9. #9
    Veritas et Fortitudo Team echolot's Avatar
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    I really miss a “join the war/support your ally” button in the diplo menue. Had often situations where my ally or even couple of them are in a war (no matter if they started it or were attacked), but I didn’t receive a call to arm event. Though sometimes in a really bad position, these morons are not even able to ask their close allies.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by lemonade View Post
    What's a protectorate?
    A type of colonial dependency which gives trade power instead of vassal income. With protectorates you probably won't be required to conquer as many provinces to set up the india route.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonade View Post
    What's a protectorate?
    Vassals that are 'low(er) tech'* when you vassalise them will no longer be vassals, they will be Protectorates. They won't give a % of Tax, instead they give a % of TP. And in terms of wars, it's like the Overlord is guaranteeing them - the overlord is called into wars involving the subject, but not vice versa. Unknown if they behave exactly like vassals in other respects, e.g. whether you can annex them. Hopefully you can!

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    * currently not defined; probably refers to being more than X levels lower in tech than you, and/or them being a lower Tech Group.
    Last edited by TheBloke; 12-01-2014 at 16:29.
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    Field Marshal TheBloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echolot View Post
    I really miss a “join the war/support your ally” button in the diplo menue. Had often situations where my ally or even couple of them are in a war (no matter if they started it or were attacked), but I didn’t receive a call to arm event. Though sometimes in a really bad position, these morons are not even able to ask their close allies.
    If they're the Defender you can Enforce Peace on the attacker. But yeah it would be nice to have a general purpose button that worked for all wars.

    Though in some cases it's not guaranteed the other nation wants you in - for example, if you would become WL. So definitely in MP games the players probably wouldn't want a general purpose 'join the war uninvited' button, and the same may be true for AI. So it would need to be a request, not an automatic join - you could send a request to join the war, which your ally could accept or decline as they wished. I'd definitely support such a button.
    My EU4 Mods:

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloke View Post
    If they're the Defender you can Enforce Peace on the attacker. But yeah it would be nice to have a general purpose button that worked for all wars.

    Though in some cases it's not guaranteed the other nation wants you in - for example, if you would become WL. So definitely in MP games the players probably wouldn't want a general purpose 'join the war uninvited' button, and the same may be true for AI. So it would need to be a request, not an automatic join - you could send a request to join the war, which your ally could accept or decline as they wished. I'd definitely support such a button.
    What determines the war leader?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opera View Post
    What determines the war leader?
    Army strength (number of troops and the pips of those troops), possibly also modified by MilTech, Morale and Discipline; but if so, to a very small extent. (Military Power Diplo Modifier does take into account MilTech, Morale and Discipline as well as army strength; I did not see much evidence for it being a factor in WL change, but I didn't test it as extensively.)

    See here for my research into the calculations used for : Military Power Diplo modifier and War leader change. (Both are in the same thread and it's recommended to read all the posts from my first one in the thread and onwards, for more explanation/discussion.)

    Note that the above details on WL change is for situations where the WL can change. That is decided by the CB used. For details of war goals and whether they permit WL change, see here: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Cassus_belli#Summary
    Last edited by TheBloke; 12-01-2014 at 16:55.
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    Quote Originally Posted by calvinhobbeslik View Post
    Can we ever annex protectorates? Do they take up relations slots?
    They're an alternate form of vassal so I would guess that they do take up a DipRel. I'm hoping they can be annexed, for the same reason, and because if they can't it'll be quite a drastic change in vassalswarm strategy. But no official word on that yet.
    Last edited by TheBloke; 12-01-2014 at 17:05.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by calvinhobbeslik View Post
    Can we ever annex protectorates?
    That sort of defeats the whole purpose of the expansion and makes those colonies' declaration of independence a hell lot easier for the parent nation to handle than an organized faction with 50 regions declaring independence all at once.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloke View Post
    Army strength (number of troops and the pips of those troops), possibly also modified by MilTech, Morale and Discipline; but if so, to a very small extent. (Military Power Diplo Modifier does take into account MilTech, Morale and Discipline as well as army strength; I did not see much evidence for it being a factor in WL change, but I didn't test it as extensively.)

    See here for my research into the calculations used for : Military Power Diplo modifier and War leader change. (Both are in the same thread and it's recommended to read all the posts from my first one in the thread and onwards, for more explanation/discussion.)

    Note that the above details on WL change is for situations where the WL can change. That is decided by the CB used. For details of war goals and whether they permit WL change, see here: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Cassus_belli#Summary
    This is pretty awesome, thanks!

  19. #19
    You're mixing up colonial nations and protectorates @wet. The whole independence mechanic is only being implemented for colonial nations which are exclusive to the Americas. Protectorates are some new kind of low-tech vassal (which would probably include every Asian or African vassal as a European nation). Would be pretty tough if these took up diplomatic relations while not being annex-able.

  20. #20
    Veritas et Fortitudo Team echolot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloke View Post
    If they're the Defender you can Enforce Peace on the attacker. But yeah it would be nice to have a general purpose button that worked for all wars.

    Though in some cases it's not guaranteed the other nation wants you in - for example, if you would become WL. So definitely in MP games the players probably wouldn't want a general purpose 'join the war uninvited' button, and the same may be true for AI. So it would need to be a request, not an automatic join - you could send a request to join the war, which your ally could accept or decline as they wished. I'd definitely support such a button.
    Or if you join the war without call to arms event, you couldn't become coalition leader. In case of a request there is always a risk that these morons would reject it for unknown reason.
    I mean in theory there is nothing what could prevent you from join the war. As long as you are ally, you have an automatic and absolutely legal reason to join the war. Even if your allies don't want it, it wouldn't hinder you. You just send your troop to the front, maybe then you don't coordinate your actions with your allies (what you don't do in EUIV anyway) or couldn't make the decision regarding peace negotiation for the coalition (don't be a coalition leader), but there is absolutely no reason why you can't declare war on the enemies of your ally.

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