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Thread: 1.4 - Westernisation Changed

  1. #1
    Johan's Home Account Paradox Dev Team Balor's Avatar
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    1.4 - Westernisation Changed

    - Westernisation no longer requires non-negative stability.
    - While westernising, you no longer get +200% stability costs, but instead +5RR.
    - Westernisation no longer depends on stability, but instead progress +10 from each power each month if possible.. When progress hits 5000, modified by techgroup, its finished. (2400 eastern, 5000 native american)
    - Westernisation events are now "bad effect" or "give up 4 months progress".
    - You can now see more details about effect of westernisation and estimated finish date in the interface.
    - When westernisation is finished, it will be truly finished, and no rebels can change that fact.

  2. #2
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    What is +5RR ?

    The changes really look great, westernizing was a chore and something to dread.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by sabrovitch View Post
    What is +5RR ?

    The changes really look great, westernizing was a chore and something to dread.
    Revolt Risk

  4. #4
    Second Lieutenant sabrovitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueCoppa View Post
    Revolt Risk
    Thanks.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    - Westernisation no longer requires non-negative stability.
    - While westernising, you no longer get +200% stability costs, but instead +5RR.
    - Westernisation no longer depends on stability, but instead progress +10 from each power each month if possible.. When progress hits 5000, modified by techgroup, its finished.
    - Westernisation events are now "bad effect" or "give up 4 months progress".
    - You can now see more details about effect of westernisation and estimated finish date in the interface.
    - When westernisation is finished, it will be truly finished, and no rebels can change that fact.
    Interesting.

    It seems easier to do now, but at least it sounds more intuitive than it currently is.

    With a 6-6-6 ruler, level 3 advisors, and the base 3 ppm, that's 36 power a month, for 432 PP a year, or 4320 westernization progress per year (max possible)? Is that how it works?

    Or with a more average 3-3-3, lv2 advisors, and base 2ppm (from lower tech group), 21 power a month, for 252 PP a year, for 2520 westernization progress per year, making westernization average 2 years?

    Not sure if I'm understanding it right, though, but if its +10 from each power point per month, that seems like what it will mean.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    progress +10 from each power each month if possible..
    if positive perhaps?
    Economic theory: P → Q, P ∴ Q, QED
    Economic practice: P → Q ∴ {!P} = ∅, QED
    Economic research: P → Q ☡ ∴ Q, QED

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  7. #7
    Johan's Home Account Paradox Dev Team Balor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mann42 View Post
    Interesting.

    It seems easier to do now, but at least it sounds more intuitive than it currently is.

    With a 6-6-6 ruler, level 3 advisors, and the base 3 ppm, that's 36 power a month, for 432 PP a year, or 4320 westernization progress per year (max possible)? Is that how it works?

    Or with a more average 3-3-3, lv2 advisors, and base 2ppm (from lower tech group), 21 power a month, for 252 PP a year, for 2520 westernization progress per year, making westernization average 2 years?

    Not sure if I'm understanding it right, though, but if its +10 from each power point per month, that seems like what it will mean.
    no.. each power gives you +1.... and you can only give +10 from adm or dip or mil each month.

    and its drained, if you have less than +10, so you are basically going to 0 quickly in power

    for your average monarch there, its 20 years..

  8. #8
    at least modify those rolls for higher chance of better monarch this is basicaly trolling...i still have to purposly lag in tech as eastern , ottoman ,muslim so i can click the westernize button now i truly have to wait for divine ruler untill this is done....


    forgive spell errors..(cold here)

  9. #9
    That's supposed to be easier? Funnier? Better?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    no.. each power gives you +1.... and you can only give +10 from adm or dip or mil each month.

    and its drained, if you have less than +10, so you are basically going to 0 quickly in power

    for your average monarch there, its 20 years..
    So if I'm getting this right, a max of 30 progress/month (10 each from each category) is possible each month?

    With the lowest westernization cost being 6000 (Eastern group is +20%), that's an absolute minimum of 200 months to westernize, or 16 years and 8 months (not accounting for events as I have no clue how common they might be).

    Is that about right?
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by roman566 View Post
    That's supposed to be easier?
    From the looks of it, it is harder, but less long-term damage. Wheras the current westernization you have to sink thousands of admin points into stability and you dont get those back.
    I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Novacat View Post
    From the looks of it, it is harder, but less long-term damage. Wheras the current westernization you have to sink thousands of admin points into stability and you dont get those back.
    Hello, you WILL waste 5 THOUSAND points in the new system, 5k points that you could spend on buildings or tech, you do not get that back either.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Novacat View Post
    From the looks of it, it is harder, but less long-term damage. Wheras the current westernization you have to sink thousands of admin points into stability and you dont get those back.
    You're still sinking a lot of admin points into it. You're now also spending a lot of diplo and military points, too.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Novacat View Post
    From the looks of it, it is harder, but less long-term damage. Wheras the current westernization you have to sink thousands of admin points into stability and you dont get those back.
    And from the sounds of it, now you have to sink 5000+ power combined into it instead. Distributing that evenly and it is still a couple thousand admin points.

    Unless I've misunderstood, which is definitely possible as the explanation of how it works wasn't particularly clear.
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  15. #15
    Sounds like a good change to me.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by roman566 View Post
    Hello, you WILL waste 5 THOUSAND points in the new system, 5k points that you could spend on buildings or tech, you do not get that back either.
    Im pretty sure that you gain westernization points alongside monarch points, not in lieu of monarch points... though some clarification would be nice.
    I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Novacat View Post
    Im pretty sure that you gain westernization points alongside monarch points, not in lieu of monarch points... though some clarification would be nice.
    Here it is:
    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    and its drained, if you have less than +10, so you are basically going to 0 quickly in power

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Novacat View Post
    Im pretty sure that you gain westernization points alongside monarch points, not in lieu of monarch points... though some clarification would be nice.
    Sure didn't sound like it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Balor View Post
    no.. each power gives you +1.... and you can only give +10 from adm or dip or mil each month.

    and its drained, if you have less than +10, so you are basically going to 0 quickly in power

    for your average monarch there, its 20 years..
    Emphasis mine.
    Paradox Wikis - Information about all current games developed by Paradox Interactive
    [CKII Mod] Project Balance - Improves historical plausability, slows down blobbing, makes the game more interesting.
    [CKII Mod Project] Historical Immersion Project - A modular project consisting of Project Balance, SWMH, VIET, ARKOpack, and NBRT+

  19. #19
    Wait so you first have to be 8 techs behind and then you lose another 10 technologies worth of points?
    Economic theory: P → Q, P ∴ Q, QED
    Economic practice: P → Q ∴ {!P} = ∅, QED
    Economic research: P → Q ☡ ∴ Q, QED

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  20. #20
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    I'm still waiting on for example China becoming Eastern instead of just flat-on western.

    Why can we only switch to the western tech group?

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