Saxoniae est imperare orbi universo - A Saxon AAR

Valhallas Call · Dec 19, 2013

Right. So I just bought EUIV today (woohoo Paradox sale!) and I figured there's probably no better way to learn how to play it than bungle around a bit and receive some ~~ridicule~~ constructive criticism on the forums. Let not the grandiose title fool you; this will be me fumbling around and trying to learn some of the nuances of the game. I played some EU II back in the day, but logged most of my hours in the series with EU III and its expansions, so I'm not a total nub when it comes to Europa Universalis, but let it be known that I hardly looked at any of the developer diaries, nor have I bothered to read the manual... basically I'm just charging headlong into this. Which, of course, begs the question:

Why Saxony?

Why indeed. Rather than do my first play-through as one of the logical choices (the Big Blue Blob, the Big White Blob, etc.), I decided to go for something a bit different. Not a One-Province-Minor, of course (I'm crazy, but I'm not suicidal), though Saxony hardly seems better... in the 1444 start it's more like a Two-Province-Minor. However, Saxony is one of only a handful of minor German states that actual has its own unique national ideas, rather than the generic ideas most of the German minors receive. Also, it's an Electorate, so it can kinda-maybe-sorta influence politics within the HRE.

There's something else, however.

Saxony, to me, reeks of being an underdog. Historically, due to its unfortunate position sandwiched between the two German heavyweights of Prussia and Austria, it could never really reach its full potential. Prussia repeatedly invaded the country to use it as a staging ground throughout the 18th and 19th centuries, to the point that "when in doubt, invade Saxony"* practically became a byword for the Prussian military leadership. Had Saxony not drawn the geographical short straw and shared a long border with hyper-aggressive Prussia, it might have developed into a much more significant player within Germany.

Although it will certainly be difficult for a first play-through, Saxony does start out in an interesting position, with a lot of potentially fantastic re-writes of history, which is pretty much the main reason why I'm so enamored with Paradox's games. As I started this game, I gave myself some objectives:

1. Strangle Brandenburg-Prussia in its cradle
2. Stay low at first: no royal marriages with any of the heavy-hitters, so they can't claim my throne
3. Gobble up some of the OPMs around Saxony via personal unions and the occasional conquest
4. After establishing more of a power base, start pursuing the Imperial Crown
5. Reconstitute the Holy Roman Empire OR form Germany; either is nice, since it leaves the Wettins in power

First update to follow up in a bit, just need to get the pictures in order. I'm playing vanilla, with normal difficulty settings.

Table of Contents
Part I: Setting up the Board
Part II: Bohemian Entanglements
Part III: The Build-Up
Part IV: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of Impending Doom

__________________________________________________

* This slogan was of course the precursor to the 20th century German Army's go-to maxim of "When in doubt, invade Belgium."

Yenzen · Dec 20, 2013

I'll be following. Learning by doing (failing) and looking up all your questions is the real way of learning these games anyway.

tnick0225 · Dec 20, 2013

Sounds interesting! No better way to play then just jumping straight into it. Looking forward to seeing how things go for you in Saxony.

Valhallas Call · Dec 20, 2013

Part I: Setting up the Board

Right. Geographically, Saxony lies in the north east of the Holy Roman Empire. Going through our neighbors, the big
blob is Bohemia. Thuringia is in blue, Anhalt is in pink, Brunswick is brown and Wurzburg is more different brown.

These are Saxony's national ideals. Overall they seem pretty good, but that 5% discipline bonus seems like a cheap
consolation prize. Probably the only way I'll be able to take on Brandenburg-Prussia will be through a very powerful
coalition. However, it looks like I'll hopefully never have to worry about claims to the Saxon throne, the +25% heir bonus is spiffy.

We start out the senior partner of a personal union with Thuringia, which started in 1440. If I play my cards right
that pretty much guarantees a doubling of Saxon territory by the end of the 1400s.

Both King Friedrich and Crown Prince Albrecht leave a lot to be desired, however. Friedrich is an awful soldier and
mediocre in every other respect, while Albrecht is a decent enough soldier but awful at pretty much everything else. Meh.

I start out by improving relations with the neighbors through marriages. After the fourth one, however...

Whoops. Didn't know that was a thing. It's not hurting me too much, however, since it lowered my monthly diplomacy points from 8 to 7.

I picked up a mission to form an alliance with Brunswick and it is successful. Hesse offers me an alliance at the same
time and I accept. The next mission I pick up is to improve my relations with Thuringia, which is easy and beneficial
since I'm going to need to get them up to 190 eventually to annex them.

By the end of the first month in-game, I manage to secure a nice little ring of alliances, a modest central German block
for mutual defense against outside enemies. Because 15,000 soldiers should be more than enough to deter the Bohemians
or the Austrians, right? :rofl:

Yenzen · Dec 20, 2013

Take warning: Austria (or whoever is emperor) will annoy you if you annex anything directly since it can demand that HRE provinces you don't have a core on be returned.. Vassalizing --> Diplo-annex is better since it saves admin points on free cores, and thus no "illegal" expansion.

The problem is that diplomatic relations include:

- Alliances
- Marriages
- Vassals
- Personal Unions
- Military access of all things
- Guarentees

Pretty much the only exception I can think of is warning other nations!

Also, Heretic Tolerance is actually bad! The Succession bonus and Diplomatic NI's are great though.

Valhallas Call · Dec 20, 2013

tnick0225 said:
Sounds interesting! No better way to play then just jumping straight into it. Looking forward to seeing how things go for you in Saxony.

Welcome aboard!

Yenzen said:
Take warning: Austria (or whoever is emperor) will annoy you if you annex anything directly since it can demand that HRE provinces you don't have a core on be returned.. Vassalizing --> Diplo-annex is better since it saves admin points on free cores, and thus no "illegal" expansion.

The problem is that diplomatic relations include:

- Alliances
- Marriages
- Vassals
- Personal Unions
- Military access of all things
- Guarentees

Pretty much the only exception I can think of is warning other nations!

Also, Heretic Tolerance is actually bad! The Succession bonus and Diplomatic NI's are great though.

I figured the game would make it tricky. So the best route when I eventually annex Thuringia will be to vassalize it first? Also, how is heretic tolerance detrimental?

GreatUberGeek · Dec 20, 2013

Looks like a good AAR so far; I actually think Saxony is somewhat easy, at least easier than EU3,when you just had Leipzig. Now you can expand much more.

The Colonel · Dec 20, 2013

If your heretic tolerance gets too high (I don't know exactly what level) you will start getting bad events and have provinces flip over to heretic religions. There's a sweetspot somewhere, but I don't know what it is.

Otherwise, looks like a great start and I'm eager for more.

Yenzen · Dec 20, 2013

Valhalla's Call said:
I figured the game would make it tricky. So the best route when I eventually annex Thuringia will be to vassalize it first? Also, how is heretic tolerance detrimental?

Nah, PU's work like vassals in terms of giving free cores upon annexation. The only difference is how the monarch is shared and the countdown timer before you can annex is 50 vs 10 years.

tnick0225 · Dec 20, 2013

Definitely try to vassalize a few of those OPMs around you. May be hard though if you allied with a rival or enemy of theirs. But it looks like you're in a great starting position, and hopefully you can hang onto that PU with Thuringia as that would be a great peaceful addition.

InvisibleSandwi · Dec 20, 2013

15,000 troops should be enough to take out Brandenburg early on, but without a bordering province, it might be more difficult to provoke a war. You could try to get some good relations with Pomerania and the Teutonic Order, since Brandenburg gets missions to assault them early on, and you might be able to enforce peace or reach a guarantee or something. Anything that gives you diplomatic flexibility is recommended, especially since you get a few national ideas that are good for expansion by diplomacy.

MiniaAr · Dec 20, 2013

Also a nice trick to use in the HRE on OPMs is to have two targets: Your intended target that you forged a claim on, and your fake target, an ally of the first one, ideally bigger, that you will declare war on. Then during the war, annex in a separate peace the intended target, start to core it immediatly (hence claim it before the war) and wait until the core is finishd to sign peace with the fake target (gold and trade power for sure, vassalisation if it's a Two Provinces Minor or more and you can afford the extra AE). That way you won't get Austria asking you to give the intended target province back.

Another trick to avoir Austria's meddling is to start a war with your target and be prepared to start a second war right after the first peace is signed. When you're at war (or when Austria is), the Emperor cannot ask for unlawful territory. This strategy I would use against the Saxon provinces in Bohemia for example. (they would be a nice addition to your holdings).

Finally, in the HRE as a small power (I played Friesland a lot, some Hansa games), I would recommend getting one of the big dogs as an ally at first instead of multiple OPMs. Austria is great as being in the same war allows you to pass through the whole HRE without military access. Once you grow too big, they will rival you and cancel the alliance but you should be able to get another big protector (France is great, Poland is RP, or the biggest country in Scandinavia if you took a port).

LordTempest · Dec 20, 2013

Obligatory sub because of glorious Saxon ancestors.

DensleyBlair · Dec 20, 2013

Obligatory sub because of a well-written intro.

Magnive · Dec 20, 2013

Does any other state in the HRE have the Wettins as their ruling dynasty? If so, you ought to RM them, and claim their throne if they get a weak successor

blklizard · Dec 21, 2013

Been lurking in the EU 4 forums and decided to participate in this AAR first. Given that I've only played EU 3, I've found playing OPM or TPM in the HRE is always an interesting choice. That PU definitely will help you a bit. Good luck and I'll be following.

Valhallas Call · Dec 23, 2013

GreatUberGeek said:
Looks like a good AAR so far; I actually think Saxony is somewhat easy, at least easier than EU3,when you just had Leipzig. Now you can expand much more.

We'll see how it goes, some of the new features are a bit overwhelming for me haha

The Colonel said:
If your heretic tolerance gets too high (I don't know exactly what level) you will start getting bad events and have provinces flip over to heretic religions. There's a sweetspot somewhere, but I don't know what it is.

Otherwise, looks like a great start and I'm eager for more.

Hopefully I'll be able to find that sweet spot, thanks for the interest!

tnick0225 said:
Definitely try to vassalize a few of those OPMs around you. May be hard though if you allied with a rival or enemy of theirs. But it looks like you're in a great starting position, and hopefully you can hang onto that PU with Thuringia as that would be a great peaceful addition.

Anhalt is another prime target for me, once I consolidate the plan is to branch out and aim for some of the historical areas of Old Saxony, Niedersachsen in modern Germany/Kingdom of Hannover in the 18th and 19th centuries.

InvisibleSandwi said:
15,000 troops should be enough to take out Brandenburg early on, but without a bordering province, it might be more difficult to provoke a war. You could try to get some good relations with Pomerania and the Teutonic Order, since Brandenburg gets missions to assault them early on, and you might be able to enforce peace or reach a guarantee or something. Anything that gives you diplomatic flexibility is recommended, especially since you get a few national ideas that are good for expansion by diplomacy.

Teaming up with the Teutonic knights is an interesting proposition, but it tends to go hand-in-hand with... Polish entanglements haha

MiniaAr said:
Also a nice trick to use in the HRE on OPMs is to have two targets: Your intended target that you forged a claim on, and your fake target, an ally of the first one, ideally bigger, that you will declare war on. Then during the war, annex in a separate peace the intended target, start to core it immediatly (hence claim it before the war) and wait until the core is finishd to sign peace with the fake target (gold and trade power for sure, vassalisation if it's a Two Provinces Minor or more and you can afford the extra AE). That way you won't get Austria asking you to give the intended target province back.

Another trick to avoir Austria's meddling is to start a war with your target and be prepared to start a second war right after the first peace is signed. When you're at war (or when Austria is), the Emperor cannot ask for unlawful territory. This strategy I would use against the Saxon provinces in Bohemia for example. (they would be a nice addition to your holdings).

Finally, in the HRE as a small power (I played Friesland a lot, some Hansa games), I would recommend getting one of the big dogs as an ally at first instead of multiple OPMs. Austria is great as being in the same war allows you to pass through the whole HRE without military access. Once you grow too big, they will rival you and cancel the alliance but you should be able to get another big protector (France is great, Poland is RP, or the biggest country in Scandinavia if you took a port).

Interesting strategy... I'll give it a try. I end up with an alliance with Bohemia in the next update, but that's because that's where my missions lead me. I might try and shift toward Vienna.

Tanzhang (譚張) said:
Obligatory sub because of glorious Saxon ancestors.

I wish I had glorious Saxon ancestors, I've just got some obscure Polish ones

DensleyBlair said:
Obligatory sub because of a well-written intro.

Thank you! My liberal arts degrees were kind of good for something!

Magnive said:
Does any other state in the HRE have the Wettins as their ruling dynasty? If so, you ought to RM them, and claim their throne if they get a weak successor

Hmmm I'll look into it... one of the national ideals does indicate they were rather prolific.

blklizard said:
Been lurking in the EU 4 forums and decided to participate in this AAR first. Given that I've only played EU 3, I've found playing OPM or TPM in the HRE is always an interesting choice. That PU definitely will help you a bit. Good luck and I'll be following.

Thank you!

Update to come shortly! I wanted to get it posted on Friday night but the forums have been acting weird for me the past few days.

Valhallas Call · Dec 23, 2013

Part II: Bohemian Entanglements

Prestige is becoming a bit of an issue.

A philosopher named Karl Piltz is for hire; however, at 0.9 ducats/gilders/florins/I don't actually know the currency per month,
he's well beyond our monthly income of 0.5 EU Fun Bucks per month.

For the time being, the military budget will be cut to compensate.

We're just baaaarely out of the red, but our prestige is actually increasing somewhat respectably.

Oh hey now what's this?

I think I'd be better off letting my papal influence build up and store it away for a rainy day. It's probably better than squandering
it all in some type of bidding war with Castille or France.

Some old Fugger died. Forget financing the arts, the state desperately needs that money. And apparently the game's currency is the ducat. Boooooring.

Mission accomplished. I'm not interested in having the Bohemians breathing down my neck if my king dies without an heir, so rather
than choosing the royal marriage mission, I go for the placating option, which means increasing relations to 100. Piece of cake.

Really? You're not going to make this easy, are you?

"Herp derp we are the courtiers of Saxony, and we giveth you three options: Firstly, you may sit around for twenty some-odd years twiddling your thumbs while
your prestige arbitrarily rises. Secondly, you may pursue a strategic marriage with Bohemia. Finally, you may enter into a royal marriage with Bohemia, which we totally
swear is a completely more different thing than a strategic marriage, super seriously hurr durr."

I just zip up the man suit and go for the marriage. Let's just pray the Wettins are as prolific at baby-making as history seems to indicate.

I decide to get chummy with the Pope, and also accept an alliance offer from Bohemia. Hopefully they won't drag me into
a war with Poland or something ridiculous like that.

Huzzah! Tech level increase! Only took 5 years.

The increase in administrative tech allows me to adopt a new idea, and I'm greeted by this bewildering screen. Gut instinct
tells me to go for some kind of military bonus to make up for my lack of military national ideals, but at the same time I'm inclined
to go the diplomatic route to stack up with the buffs my national ideals will eventually give me. Any thoughts, dear readers?

tnick0225 · Dec 23, 2013

Valhalla's Call said:
Update to come shortly! I wanted to get it posted on Friday night but the forums have been acting weird for me the past few days.

It's been acting pretty strange for me the past couple of days as well....hope it clears up and starts working a bit better though!

blklizard · Dec 23, 2013

Good update! I love how EU 4, like EU 3, still have some issues with the missions given. As for your national idea, I'm thinking economic related ideas might be better. I have no experience with EU 4 but I think a stronger economy might be a higher priority. If you cannot maintain a decent sized military, you're gonna have trouble expanding or holding off attacks.

Saxoniae est imperare orbi universo - A Saxon AAR

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