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West African, is it possible ?

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hajutze said:
No cash, they love him.
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So you failed there.

I mean, if you lost, you did something wrong. You shouldn't blame game, just look for another way to improve your strategy. ;p

As West African, you should all time control situation in Umayyad sultanate, try to assassinate low heirs, use sow dissent on big vassals and so on.
 
Rozmarzony said:
So you failed there.

I mean, if you lost, you did something wrong. You shouldn't blame game, just look for another way to improve your strategy. ;p

As West African, you should all time control situation in Umayyad sultanate, try to assassinate low heirs, use sow dissent on big vassals and so on.
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- err no. Mali vs Umayads is entirely RNG driven gamble of which player does not have ability to directly influence outcome.
 
RussianBias said:
- err no. Mali vs Umayads is entirely RNG driven gamble of which player does not have ability to directly influence outcome.
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You have.
If you will assasinate all sultans having at least 500 piety... no wy to declare invasion for you.
Or you can help by all means to Idrisids to allow them to defend from Umayyads.
And hundreds of other tactics.
 
I just fail to see how you accumulate so much cash to actually manage to assassinate a king level tier (unless you get lucky with the first couple of attempts) or how you actually manage to save the Idrisids. The Umayyads have approximately x2 the combined forces of both you and the mauritanians and even if you give them the cash, the AI for some reason doesn't really like to hire mercs even if it'll lose all its land.
 
hajutze said:
I just fail to see how you accumulate so much cash to actually manage to assassinate a king level tier (unless you get lucky with the first couple of attempts) or how you actually manage to save the Idrisids. The Umayyads have approximately x2 the combined forces of both you and the mauritanians and even if you give them the cash, the AI for some reason doesn't really like to hire mercs even if it'll lose all its land.
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Raid. Raid raid raid. Of course, in that game Rozmarzony is playing Canaries, so he tech stole until he got boats and then he went raiding all over the place to get the money he needed. I forget if vanilla Mali in 867 starts with control of the Canaries or not. If not, well, getting money might be a bit harder.

You can also do North Korea mode, banish vassals and steal their money as much as you can.

Go ahead and read the Canaries AAR. It's quite instructive in how to use the game-iest, cheesiest, most devilish tactics to survive and prosper. But with West African starts being so difficult, those are kind of the tactics you need to use.
 
The maintenance I have to pay for my troops outweights whatever I can get from raiding (... already tried raiding).

Everything said in this topic - I've tried it.
Heck I even tried assassinating them, but 350 gp per try ... Heck the most I've ever had was 2k and it's pretty much 1-2 successful assassionations. And it's not like it's reaaally hard to get 500 piety as a muslim.

Stickying to Byz kind of helps, but the bastard started converting my vassals =/.
 
How about playing a mod where Mali has more provinces and features. I mean yeah maybe it's possible in vanilla but is it fun? SWMH has an amazing map with a lot more Saharan provinces that looks a lot better as well (don't know how it's balanced though) Viet might have interesting westafrica specific events and in CK2+ Mali also has lots more provinces. (it should be easier there but still challenging enough)
 
I just gave up on the idea. I guess I'm going with Slavic next. At least they have some fighting chance that doesn't involve so much luck-factor (as for example - the umayyads not taking Mauritania in the first 10 years of the game).
 
I haven't actually tried going full NK-mode, that might be my next step.
 
Going full NK as a gavelkind is a bit troublesome ... sooner or later you'll get 2 sons (or as in my case 1 son + 2 daughters and my son died misteriously) and the shit hits the fan.
 
Rozmarzony said:
You have.
If you will assasinate all sultans having at least 500 piety... no wy to declare invasion for you.
Or you can help by all means to Idrisids to allow them to defend from Umayyads.
And hundreds of other tactics.
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- as i said, it is pretty much a gamble, either Umayyads will conquer everything around them or they not. And assassination spam is not an appropriate tactic for dirt poor Mali. West African position on the continent is far different from Canary Island from your AAR.
 
RussianBias said:
- as i said, it is pretty much a gamble, either Umayyads will conquer everything around them or they not. And assassination spam is not an appropriate tactic for dirt poor Mali. West African position on the continent is far different from Canary Island from your AAR.
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http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?696951-Short-story-of-successful-Mali&highlight=
Created Mali Empire and reformed faith on multiplayer (without loading) and without using ANY tricks like North Korea mode or so.

Having 40% while defending in west african provs, you can defeat 2x bigger enemy armies so imho it gamble and you can win in every game without restarting.
 
I've done it a few times, conquer the whole of Africa. It's not as hard as the zoroastrians or Jews, I don't play with any mods, but you have to accept that it may take you a few goes. Both times I've done it I got busted down to count after an invasion. Didn't convert, slowly but surely took back all my territory while staying as a pagan. Then independence war. But most of the expansion from there is taking single counties whenever you get the chance until you start taking the coastal cities which have more troops. Then from there it's much smoother sailing. Just remember that losing an invasion doesn't mean game over, it can actually work out for the best.
 
Rozmarzony said:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?696951-Short-story-of-successful-Mali&highlight=
Created Mali Empire and reformed faith on multiplayer (without loading) and without using ANY tricks like North Korea mode or so.

Having 40% while defending in west african provs, you can defeat 2x bigger enemy armies so imho it gamble and you can win in every game without restarting.
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- as i said, you just got lucky. I had my share of West African games to be sure of it. Just like pre 2.0.2 khazars, Mali game relies entirely on luck.
 
Actually he might be onto something ... not what he thinks, but onto something. The Canaries survive a lot more than the average Mali ... sooo start with them and retreat somewhere else xD ?
 
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