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Athalcor

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From the former lead developer of the Divergences mod,
the creator of the Millennium mod and the England flag-changing addon

comes

The Byzantine Themata System



747px-Byzantine_Empire_Themata-950-en.svg.png


Why this mod?

I have played a game inside the Empire recently and it felt really shallow - Byzantium, which should be quite unique, turned into an indifferent Western-Europe-like realm. So I decided to improve it a bit. I started with the administration system with an addition of Basileus having a say in the succession of his vassals. It is still far from reality but IMHO it represents not only themata system of 800s-1000s, but also the following pronoia system and the 'feudalisation' of the pronoiarios during the sunset of the Empire, all of this with a reasonable level of abstraction. There are also some minor additions concerning the Empire (for example, the Seljuks, the creation of Rum)...and others could follow.

An important note: It is based on CK2+ as for a long time it has been the platform I play CK2 with. It might get adapted to vanilla one day but the later I do it, the less time I will have to maintain and update two different versions at once. On the other hand, if anyone wants to port, he is free to do so (provided that he tells me so).

How to install: Just insert into your C:\Users\Username\Documents\Paradox Interactive\Crusader Kings II\mod, beside your CK2Plus files, it will act as a regular extension.

Screenshots:

attachment.php

attachment.php

attachment.php

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Changelog:

Version 1.0 is up.
- updated to CK2+ 3.01.0

Version 0.9 is up.
- decreased the stat requirements for convincing the Emperor to let you keep your titles on succession
- Byzantium is 'awarded' with one point of decadence when a Doux refuses a title revoking
- Basil II should now live a bit longer, IRL he ruled until 1025 while ingame he usually dies much earlier
- Tweaked the Hordes' CB so that they should follow historical route of expansion
- Fixed a minor CB bug
- Lowered starting Ghaznavid event troops in 1000 AD
- Increased the decadence gain for a weak Basileus ascending
- Fixed a CA error (tracked down by Tabris01)
- When the Empire does not own Constantinople, it is hard to become strong
- Religious faction is now angered with deposing the patriarch
- Updated the French localisation (by simonthekiller)
- Fixed the missing localisation for the opinion modifier when letting a Doux keep his lands (tracked down by snipercrow)
- Decreased the base chance to become strong
- Size of the Empire now affects the chance to become strong (both extremes are bad)
- Renamed several duchies of the Empire according to suggestions by Prussian-Eagle
- Greek duchies now called Themata

Version 0.8 is up.
- the possibility to influence the succession of your Themata vassals is now correctly tied to the level of Imperial Decadence
- added a 'Made me Patriarch' positive relation modifier for the new Patriarch if you decide to depose him during coronation
- added French localisation (courtesy of simonthekiller, thanks again!)
- fixed Alexios's throne ascension date; he now properly owns Byzantium, Constantinople and Blachernae on 1081.4.1
- fixed Basil the Macedonian starting in 867 without actually owning Constantinople
- Basil the Macedonian is now properly Greek in culture
- Patriarch should now accept the coronation request in more cases
- when your father was a strong Emperor (i.e. Autokrator trait), you now have bigger chance to be declared strong Emperor as well

Version 0.7.2 is up.
- reduced the coronation piety requirement to 50
- fixed the bug that caused strong Emperors amass opinion maluses for vassals on ascension
- fixed a bug that broke the Andronikos Doukas's uprising in the 1066 scenario

Version 0.7.1 is up.
- updated to CK2+ 2.06.3
- added the missing .mod file
- fixed a minor history bug

Version 0.7 is up.
- updated to CK2+ 2.06.2
- created a system of Imperial Decadence for Byzantium
- created a system of Imperial Coronation for Byzantium
- overhauled the Themata system to be compatible with the new mechanics
- added a moral authority bonus for Orthodoxy as long Byzantium exists, holds Constantinople and is Orthodox
- restored Cilicia to Muslim hands in 867
- rebalanced the Byzantine-Bulgarian war in 1000 (though while using Better Armies module)
- AI Byzantine Emperors will no longer create any Kingdom-level titles
- overhauled the post-Rum Anatolian beyliks by removing a lot of the Sultanate titles there
- implemented another AnaxXiphos's icon (thanks again!)

Version 0.6 is up.
- updated to CK2+ 2.05.4

Version 0.5 is up.
- fixed Seljuks getting infinite money and prestige
- toned down the frequency of handing out claims on Byzantium
- toned down AI-AI interaction resulting in constant civil wars for the Byzzies
- added missing localisation into one event from the 1066 event chain
- added a positive opinion modifier so that those who receive a theme from the Emperor should be grateful

Version 0.4 is up.
- fixed some minor stuff
- added a rather complex event chain that should simulate the events of the 1066 Byzantine-Seljuk war
- Seljuks should no longer run around like crazy monkeys but instead focus on the territories they historically did
- when recognised by Basileus, your relatives should now receive a weak claim on Byzantium; this way granting titles to your relatives is far less safe
- when recognised by Basileus, ambitious characters should now receive a weak claim on Byzantium; this should simulate the historical army uprisings leading to a general being proclaimed the new Basileus; OTOH, if you try to revoke the said character, he usually revolts
- last two mechanics should simulate the volatility of Byzantine politics but they have to be tested to see whether they do not weaken Byzantium too much
- added another AI-only option for granting the titles to any landless realm lord
- title renouncing should now happen lot less but when it happens, the doux should surrender in most times

Version 0.3 is up.
- fixed some minor stuff
- made compatible with the latest CK2+
- added history entries concerning the deterioration of the Imperial administration after Manzikert, taken the Komnenian restoration into account
- the system now correctly affects only titles inside de jure Byzantium, other titles are unaffected
- created an event concerning the distribution of the lands after usurping them; under correct circumstances the Basileus can grant them to a councillor, an Imperial dignitary, a relative, the strategos, the regent or he can steal it for himself

Version 0.2 is up.
- fixed some minor stuff
- implemented AnaxXiphos's icon (thanks again!)
- the themata system now collapses when the Empire loses its Anatolian possessions. The Empire is then locked to Low CA till the control of Anatolia is restored
- when starting in 1066, losing the Seljuk invasion results in most of Anatolia being usurped by the Sultanate of Rum. The themata system also collapses

Version 0.1 is up.
- added the themata system of recognising the local governors by the Basileus

Is Themata mod incompatible with some of CK2+ modules?

  • Alternate bookmarks will mess it a lot,
  • Cultural localisation requires some tweaking,
  • Better armies are totally compatible,
  • Flavourful titles should be compatible,
  • Hardcore mode should be compatible,
  • No looters should be compatible,
  • Vanilla hordes should be compatible.
  • I do not know about the rest.
 

Attachments

  • Themata.rar
    149,1 KB · Views: 300
Last edited:
Cool, thank you!

Are the strategoi able to make the duchies inheritable? After all the theme system lost its strength after about 1025 and was effectively dead after 1204.
 



I've obviously gone mad with power. Feel free to use, or not, no pressure. Both colors options included. Download here: Link

Nice, will utilise that ;).

Cool, thank you!

Are the strategoi able to make the duchies inheritable? After all the theme system lost its strength after about 1025 and was effectively dead after 1204.

Well, the themata are basically still inheritable but every new doux has to ask the Basileus for recognition (though if the CA of the Empire is lower than Medium, the Basileus loses this right). The Basileus can refuse that and strip him of titles but he risks a civil war. The whole thing is not really much tested, but the architecture is working and adding new modifiers or conditions is not much of a problem.
 
You had me sold until you mentioned CK2+. Oh well.

Would this potentially work if I outright removed all references to the CK2+ tyrant system from the code?

Well, the truth is that all in all, I mod for myself. I also think, that no such tiny mod as this one could stand on its own. So, you can think of CK2+ as of Steam :p.

Anyway, at the moment, it is very simple - in the events find the hidden_tooltips that add the tyranny trait and instead add sth along the lines of lowering the opinion of vassals for 5 years.
 
Version 0.2 is up.
- fixed some minor stuff
- implemented AnaxXiphos's icon (thanks again!)
- the themata system now collapses when the Empire loses its Anatolian possessions. The Empire is then locked to Low CA till the control of Anatolia is restored
- when starting in 1066, losing the Seljuk invasion results in most of Anatolia being usurped by the Sultanate of Rum. The themata system also collapses
 
yes i tried searching the files but i could not find it. i would like to see if it would work with pb+swmh.

Well, definitely. You just need to do the right tweaking.
- this mod affects the crown laws...adding sth along the line of
Code:
      OR = {
				has_law = centralization_x	
				NOT = { AND = {
          title = e_byzantium
          has_global_flag = collapse_of_themata_system
        } }
			}
to the medium, high and absolute authority entries. You would have to incorporate that into the said file of PB as I doubt they left it unchanged. (x stands for the law one point higher than the one you are editing)

- there's an event concerning the creation of the Rum Sultanate...I believe that PB already does that so it would have to be removed. To do that, just erase the history folder of this mod.

- the tyranny part is mentioned twice in the themata_in_action.txt file, starting with
Code:
hidden_tooltip = {
			if = {
				limit = {
					trait = tyrant19
				}
				remove_trait = tyrant19
				add_trait = tyrant20
			}
...

Unless PB uses the same system, the entire hidden_tooltip stuff needs to be replaced with something reducing the vassals' opinion instead. OTOH, atm it does no harm as without the tyranny system it simply defaults to no effect. But that kind of overpowers the entire system.

- and take the last paragraph from the traits.gfx file and copy it to the said file in the PB mod.

It should work then. No guarantees.

The actual best thing to do would be telling the PB guys to contact me and trying to do some collaboration (if they are interested in including this in their mod, that is)
 
How exactly does this work?

Well, basically, every Doux in the de jure Byzantine Empire receives an event on his ascension. According to the circumstances, he doesn't have to care what the Basileus thinks or he has to ask him for recognition. If the Basileus decides against it, the Doux can either surrender his theme or fight for it. If he is confirmed - well, then he can rule till his death ;).

The system is still far from perfect - I hope to post an update this weekend which should improve the mechanics...and I still some future tweaks in mind ;).
 
Ive checked out this page a few times since you mentioned it on the CK2+ page.
Im not sure if this is a huge or detailed question to answer, but could you explain the reason behind this mod?

Im guessing your motives here, but i assume it either happened in history or you see a roleplaying/gameplay benefit.

I have little to no knowledge of this area of the world in this part of history, so i honestly don't know.
If it can be explained briefly, maybe you could put an explanation in the OP.
 
Ive checked out this page a few times since you mentioned it on the CK2+ page.
Im not sure if this is a huge or detailed question to answer, but could you explain the reason behind this mod?

Im guessing your motives here, but i assume it either happened in history or you see a roleplaying/gameplay benefit.

I have little to no knowledge of this area of the world in this part of history, so i honestly don't know.
If it can be explained briefly, maybe you could put an explanation in the OP.

Well, there are several reasons behind the mod:

1. There has always been a minority of CK2 players obsessed with Byzantium wanting to improve the 'feel' of it...and no mod that would actually do so
2. The Themata system (or the similar pronoia system of post-Manzikert Byzantium) is something that is way too underrepresented in CK2
3. I have recently had a game in the area and it seemed to me very shallow
4. It might bring a fresh experience for the player in Byzantium, different from the one in West Europe

So, all in all, it is a mix of historical accuracy (which cannot be really represented but IMHO this mod /when I implement some of the planned features/ does that with a reasonable level of abstraction) and immersion.

The problem with the mod is the possible lack of enjoyability for the Douxes (who would want to be robbed of his titles?) - and enjoyability is sth that mustn't be sacked, not even for historical accuracy, so I will run a few test games, see how does the mod fare and possibly implement some solutions.

I understand that atm I cannot really ask for feedback since the mod is not compatible with pretty much anything but that should be fixed tonight.

And yes, the OP is a bit shallow but it will get improved as well ;).
 
Well, there are several reasons behind the mod:

1. There has always been a minority of CK2 players obsessed with Byzantium wanting to improve the 'feel' of it...and no mod that would actually do so
2. The Themata system (or the similar pronoia system of post-Manzikert Byzantium) is something that is way too underrepresented in CK2
3. I have recently had a game in the area and it seemed to me very shallow
4. It might bring a fresh experience for the player in Byzantium, different from the one in West Europe

So, all in all, it is a mix of historical accuracy (which cannot be really represented but IMHO this mod /when I implement some of the planned features/ does that with a reasonable level of abstraction) and immersion.

The problem with the mod is the possible lack of enjoyability for the Douxes (who would want to be robbed of his titles?) - and enjoyability is sth that mustn't be sacked, not even for historical accuracy, so I will run a few test games, see how does the mod fare and possibly implement some solutions.

I understand that atm I cannot really ask for feedback since the mod is not compatible with pretty much anything but that should be fixed tonight.

And yes, the OP is a bit shallow but it will get improved as well ;).

I have a couple of recommendations - don't make CK2+ a requisite firstly, I neither have nor want it, and this mod sounds promising. Besides, I'm sure it'll work fine with CK2+ anyway. Also, to overcome the issue of losing all titles as a doux, you could perhaps make an event chain wherein you can request the Emperor make your position hereditary. Provided he likes you enough, and your dynasty is large enough for this to be sustainable of course. IDK, maybe there are historical precedents for this, I'll have to look into that.
 
I have a couple of recommendations - don't make CK2+ a requisite firstly, I neither have nor want it, and this mod sounds promising. Besides, I'm sure it'll work fine with CK2+ anyway. Also, to overcome the issue of losing all titles as a doux, you could perhaps make an event chain wherein you can request the Emperor make your position hereditary. Provided he likes you enough, and your dynasty is large enough for this to be sustainable of course. IDK, maybe there are historical precedents for this, I'll have to look into that.

- about CK2+:
I have already stated why I am doing it this way...but fair enough, I might make it compatible with vaniila in the future. But not now...because then I would have to develop two separate versions and I don't have that much energy and spare time.

- about losing titles:
Well, you do not lose all your titles - you lose your ducal titles inside de jure Byzantium and two counties inside de jure Byzantium. And it is not set to happen often, it just can happen. Btw, of course, as the Empire started to deteriorate after Manzikert, the pronoiarios (pronoia system succeeded the themata system) started to become more and more like feudal lords. And the mod does reflect that...there's no need for another event chain.
 
- about CK2+:
I have already stated why I am doing it this way...but fair enough, I might make it compatible with vaniila in the future. But not now...because then I would have to develop two separate versions and I don't have that much energy and spare time.

- about losing titles:
Well, you do not lose all your titles - you lose your ducal titles inside de jure Byzantium and two counties inside de jure Byzantium. And it is not set to happen often, it just can happen. Btw, of course, as the Empire started to deteriorate after Manzikert, the pronoiarios (pronoia system succeeded the themata system) started to become more and more like feudal lords. And the mod does reflect that...there's no need for another event chain.

Oh, I thought you'd given them appointment succession. NVM.