What do you mean by that? Is there a way to circumvent those new rules yet?
[PETITION] A better way different approach to Nerf theocracy vassal.
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What do you mean by that? Is there a way to circumvent those new rules yet?
What he's saying is that the theocracy spam technique isn't actually that great, as strategies go.
Your vassals will be docile, which is a nice advantage if you're tired of revolts or superdukes - and not actually very good at preventing revolts and superdukes.
But that's really the extent of the advantage theocracies provide.
Your vassals will be docile, which is a nice advantage if you're tired of revolts or superdukes - and not actually very good at preventing revolts and superdukes.
But that's really the extent of the advantage theocracies provide.
Again the game is mod friendly enough that I can't see this affecting anyone's sandbox experience for very long. I mean heck I sometimes use a mod (for sandbox reasons) that lets me plot to kill my children, which was removed from the base game long long ago due to balance reasons. I feel that at most this will only really affect the multiplayer community in the long run, in which case I can understand how balance would be important.
First, it is unmoddable.
Second, I never said game balance is unimportant. In fact, I want to improve both balance and sandbox. My suggestion can effectively reduce power of Church and City vassal to the same level as Feudal vassal while also retains sandboxness. I believe that all changes in a game should aim to make everyone happy.
I'm quite disappointed about how PBS handled this one. It kinda reminds me of the EU4 patches. First, PDS makes a sandbox game, then they spend a whole lot of effort to put it on rails, i.e., placing arbitrary limits.
And before you say anything, I'm not arguing that the game should be kept unbalanced. I agree PDS was addressing a valid problem here, I just don't agree with the method. In a sandbox game, adding consequences for certain actions is far superior than imposing hard limitations.
I agree in principle with the OP, not necessarily in the details. For instance, I would drop the random bishop event and instead add three new things:
1) Suppose your realm size is 200 and the total holdings under your direct burghers and bishops (count-level or up) total 50 holdings each. Well, go ahead and add a -30 "realm instability" to all your vassals, since you are 30% over the limit (the vanilla defaults are 10% each). See how do you like trying to defy history and giving these people way more power than they actually had at the time.
2) Allow wrong type vassals to create a "overthrow wrong government" faction where they seek to topple the top liege and create a government of their own type.
3) For bishops specifically, allow them to create a "serve the holy father" faction where they seek to become vassals of the pope, and allow the pope to join their war when they revolt. I mean, if you have an entire empire controlled by the clergy where, apart from the emperor, all feudal power have been relegated to small baronies, it wouldn't take very many decades before they start talking about creating the heaven on earth.
As the OP have been saying all over the thread, with proper mechanics in place you increase careful decision-making from the player.
But if PDS have changed only that, I would not be posting here. After all, these percentages are the moddable parts of it. What annoyed me the most is the hardcoded "no adjacent theocracy" rule. In my game, I just conquered a province with two churches on it. Before giving the province to someone else, I tried to give them both to the same baron-level bishop, but was simply not allowed to. Seriously, PDS, was this necessary? I just wanted the dude to be able to improve the holdings faster on his own. Boy, do these hard limits annoy me!
And before you say anything, I'm not arguing that the game should be kept unbalanced. I agree PDS was addressing a valid problem here, I just don't agree with the method. In a sandbox game, adding consequences for certain actions is far superior than imposing hard limitations.
I agree in principle with the OP, not necessarily in the details. For instance, I would drop the random bishop event and instead add three new things:
1) Suppose your realm size is 200 and the total holdings under your direct burghers and bishops (count-level or up) total 50 holdings each. Well, go ahead and add a -30 "realm instability" to all your vassals, since you are 30% over the limit (the vanilla defaults are 10% each). See how do you like trying to defy history and giving these people way more power than they actually had at the time.
2) Allow wrong type vassals to create a "overthrow wrong government" faction where they seek to topple the top liege and create a government of their own type.
3) For bishops specifically, allow them to create a "serve the holy father" faction where they seek to become vassals of the pope, and allow the pope to join their war when they revolt. I mean, if you have an entire empire controlled by the clergy where, apart from the emperor, all feudal power have been relegated to small baronies, it wouldn't take very many decades before they start talking about creating the heaven on earth.
As the OP have been saying all over the thread, with proper mechanics in place you increase careful decision-making from the player.
But if PDS have changed only that, I would not be posting here. After all, these percentages are the moddable parts of it. What annoyed me the most is the hardcoded "no adjacent theocracy" rule. In my game, I just conquered a province with two churches on it. Before giving the province to someone else, I tried to give them both to the same baron-level bishop, but was simply not allowed to. Seriously, PDS, was this necessary? I just wanted the dude to be able to improve the holdings faster on his own. Boy, do these hard limits annoy me!
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There are so many simple changes that can improve the gameplay of non-Feudal vassal. I believe PDS can make their game better for more customers, not just a certain group.