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Last week I told you about the College of Cardinals and the new papal powers (though I believe I forgot to mention that the Pope can also grant you claims on counties and duchies!) Today I'll go through the rest of the new Christian mechanics in Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham, as well as the new Muslim stuff. Let's start with the Holy Orders!

CKII_SoA_DD_02_Dynastic_Grandmaster.jpg

We have given each non-heretic religion in the game at least one Holy Order. This includes the various pagan religions, though most of their Holy Orders are rather fanciful. The Catholics also get two more in addition to the old ones; the Knights of Calatrava and the Knights of Santiago, both of which are mostly active in Hispania. Holy Orders are no longer activated at a certain date, many will start showing up once the Crusades/Jihads kick off (which is also more dynamic now), or when certain conditions are met. For example, the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre (an Orthodox Holy Order) becomes active if Antioch and Jerusalem are Orthodox and held by Orthodox rulers. Holy Orders are now much more active in world politics, and both their internal and external mechanics have been altered. You can now borrow money from certain Holy Orders (like the Knights Templar), or donate money for Piety. They, in turn, will make various requests (and if you owe them money, it is hard to refuse.) For example, they can ask that one of your sons join them, or that you give them the right to build a castle in an empty holding slot in one of your counties. Internally, Grandmasters are no longer randomly generated characters, but chosen from among vassals and courtiers, many of which will now be important members of European nobility. Having a Grandmaster of your dynasty will give you a monthly amount of prestige. Castle holdings under the Grandmaster are no longer hereditary, but appointed to a "Commander" for life. We have also added some minor rules and decisions, like if you happen to be the king of Jerusalem, you now have the option to vassalize the Templars and the Knights of St John. Lastly, if you think that an Order has grown too powerful in your realm, you can expel it forever, seizing its castles (a very impious act.)

CKII_SoA_DD_02_Holy_Order_Decisions.jpg

Somewhat related to the Holy Orders, you now have the ability to order any courtier to take the vows and become a monk or nun. The character will then either become a regular monk or nun (traits), or go off to join one of the martial orders. Either way, he or she will be disinherited. Unfortunately, you are not allowed to do this against characters who stand to inherit titles (like younger sons under Gavelkind); unless you imprison them first!

CKII_SoA_DD_02_Take_the_Vows.jpg

As I mentioned earlier, the Crusades will no longer necessarily kick off after a certain year; it now depends on the actual situation in Europe. For example, if Constantinople or Rome have fallen or the Moors are pushing into France. Similar conditions now apply for the Muslims. The Pagans - if they can have Great Holy Wars - will get them after the Crusades and Jihads are both active.

We have also improved on the heresies; most of them are now more distinctive and some of them even have their own heads of religion. For example, the Cathars can appoint female bishops and the Ibadi can now have their own Caliph, etc. The events that control the spread of heresies are different if you have Sons of Abraham; heresies tend to be more localized and it is also possible for minority view non-heretics among your courtiers to spread their faith (i.e. an Orthodox courtier among Catholics, etc.) Perhaps the most drastic change to heresies though, is that they can now take over as the new orthodoxy if they hold more provinces than the current mainstream form of the religion. If, say, more counties are Waldensian than Catholic, Catholicism will become the heresy and its Holy Orders will join the Waldensians. Oh, and we also decided to add "regular" religious rebels who are not trying to spread a heresy, just to gain freedom from the religious oppression of their overlords (e.g. Sunni rebels in a Catholic realm.)

Catholicism may have received the most attention in Sons of Abraham, but we have not forgotten the Muslims. They get a choice between two rival schools of theology and the conflicts that arise out of taking a stance. On one side, you have the Mu'tazili school, which espouses reason and rational thought inspired by the ancient Greek philosophers. Opposing them are the Ash'ari, who belive in the eternal, uncreated word of Allah. Historically, the Mutazilites lost out after some fairly brutal conflicts and draconian measures like the Mihna , arguably bringing to an end the Islamic Golden Age. In game terms, Mutazilites get a Learning bonus for research, whereas the Ash'ari gain Piety, and members of opposing schools tend to loathe each other.

I think that will do for now. Next week, I'll speak of pilgrimages, religious events and Judaism!
 
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The other possibility would be that they'd work like bishoprics under free investiture but that would be strange imo. Since it will mainly (only?) be used by AI holy orders in the vanilla game, giving the titles back to the liege makes much more sense than creating some interface for choosing the successor to each vassal title individually.

I don't disagree, but since we have no confirmation, I think its much better to simply say that that is the most logical way for it to work, rather than that we know that it is how it will work.
 
that all looks awesome
Will sons run away to become monks against your consent?
[as with Aquinas, running away, getting captured by his family and dragged back home to be locked in a tower with a series of prostitutes then escaping and finally getting to be a friar.] as that kind of thing seems a perfect event chain for CK2s dynastic focus.

Anychance of events to represent the rise and revolution of the Franciscans and Dominicans?
Or atleast different monk traits to differentiate monastic from mendicant?
 
Will sons run away to become monks against your consent?
[as with Aquinas, running away, getting captured by his family and dragged back home to be locked in a tower with a series of prostitutes then escaping and finally getting to be a friar.] as that kind of thing seems a perfect event chain for CK2s dynastic focus.

That would actually be really cool, especially if there was a chance they'd become a Saint. St Francis of Assisi is another really good example
 
That would actually be really cool, especially if there was a chance they'd become a Saint. St Francis of Assisi is another really good example

...and, this would add another surprise element to the player who has groomed the perfect heir but not landed him yet. The heir gets a religious awakening and flees to monastery, ruining the player's plans for that heir.

I'd like it, since the mortality rate is so toned down.
 
that all looks awesome
[as with Aquinas, running away, getting captured by his family and dragged back home to be locked in a tower with a series of prostitutes then escaping and finally getting to be a friar.] as that kind of thing seems a perfect event chain for CK2s dynastic focus.

There are few men alive with that kind of willpower.

Very curious to see what the Orthodox Holy Order will be. Can't even wager a guess as to what it could possible be.
 
Very curious to see what the Orthodox Holy Order will be. Can't even wager a guess as to what it could possible be.
Uhh...Did you even read the DD?
the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre (an Orthodox Holy Order) becomes active if Antioch and Jerusalem are Orthodox and held by Orthodox rulers.
 
No love for the orthodox faith? Something for the ecumenical and other patriarchs to do?
 
We have given each non-heretic religion in the game at least one Holy Order. This includes the various pagan religions, though most of their Holy Orders are rather fanciful. The Catholics also get two more in addition to the old ones; the Knights of Calatrava and the Knights of Santiago, both of which are mostly active in Hispania. Holy Orders are no longer activated at a certain date, many will start showing up once the Crusades/Jihads kick off (which is also more dynamic now), or when certain conditions are met. For example, the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre (an Orthodox Holy Order) becomes active if Antioch and Jerusalem are Orthodox and held by Orthodox rulers. Holy Orders are now much more active in world politics, and both their internal and external mechanics have been altered. You can now borrow money from certain Holy Orders (like the Knights Templar), or donate money for Piety. They, in turn, will make various requests (and if you owe them money, it is hard to refuse.) For example, they can ask that one of your sons join them, or that you give them the right to build a castle in an empty holding slot in one of your counties. Internally, Grandmasters are no longer randomly generated characters, but chosen from among vassals and courtiers, many of which will now be important members of European nobility. Having a Grandmaster of your dynasty will give you a monthly amount of prestige.

This mechanic is valid for Mercenaries, too? As, at least Mercenaries were playable if landed, we could play them? As Grand Master how to seize the control of the Order for yourself dynasty?

Castle holdings under the Grandmaster are no longer hereditary, but appointed to a "Commander" for life. We have also added some minor rules and decisions, like if you happen to be the king of Jerusalem, you now have the option to vassalize the Templars and the Knights of St John. Lastly, if you think that an Order has grown too powerful in your realm, you can expel it forever, seizing its castles (a very impious act.)

You have already said that Appointment is moddable, I'm asking myself if I could play as a Commander and, again, force the Grand Master to "appoint" my sons...

It seems correct to me to have the possibility to expel them I they will become annoying.
 
that all looks awesome
Will sons run away to become monks against your consent?
[as with Aquinas, running away, getting captured by his family and dragged back home to be locked in a tower with a series of prostitutes then escaping and finally getting to be a friar.] as that kind of thing seems a perfect event chain for CK2s dynastic focus.

Sounds like he was in great peril. Was the tower called Castle Anthrax?
 
No love for the orthodox faith? Something for the ecumenical and other patriarchs to do?

I'm confident that there will be at least a little polish around the edges for them, since there has to be, at minimum, some level of interaction with their new Holy Order.

Though I still think there should be monastery holdings, particularly for the Catholics, an idea I just had: non-merc titular holy order titles. For example, lets just say that the Cistercians are in. They would have a Cistercian Order title, but not as mercs. Just sort free-floating, like unhanded adventurers. Different orders could give you different bonuses for having members from your dynasty. For example, the Cistercians might give you a bit of income, to represent their industrial work.

Not perfect, but I still want to see proper monastic orders in the game.
 
Sounds like he was in great peril. Was the tower called Castle Anthrax?
Where the habitants are very, very naughty and they must be spanked :p

...and, this would add another surprise element to the player who has groomed the perfect heir but not landed him yet. The heir gets a religious awakening and flees to monastery, ruining the player's plans for that heir.

I'd like it, since the mortality rate is so toned down.
This would be great, but I don't think the mortality is that toned down.
While people like to speak how the life-expectancy of the middle ages were around the 30 years old, this is only because most kids died infant, before reaching 3 years old, and people bred like crazy to compensate this, but once you reached adulthood, you had very good chances of reaching at least 50 years old if no outbreak or famine happened.
And if you were a noble, as is the case of this game, you had still better chances than the rest of the 'low people'.
 
Mending the Great Schism...?

Maybe someone has said it before in this thread, I don't know. But if you set out to restore the ERE and "Mend the Great Schism", but there's Mending the Great Schism decision for Orthodoxy, can this still be done if Orthodoxy falls out of favor as the main "Orthodox" religion?
Also, once you Mend the Great Schism as the Byzantines (or ERE, or whomever) will the Catholic holy orders switch over to Greek Orthodoxy eventually? Just wondering about that, as it seems like one of the strangest decisions available in CK2, and one that might be influenced a lot by this DLC.
Sorry if someone already posted about it.

Also, I thought the head of respective places could appoint their Patriarchs. But Byzantium seems not to be able to do this when I'm playing... (as in, it's not a feature in the game).
 
The revamp of heresies is a truely great idea. But I think it would be great for there to be an opportunity for these heresies to become schisms of particular religions. Doing so would allow for religions like the Druze and Ibadi Islam to carry through to EUIV, and would genuinely improve both CK2 and EUIV.

In the case of Judaism; will there be special interactions for Jewish rulers conversing with Christian and Muslim ones (and vice versa)?
Also I think it might be interesting to experiment with a Jewish cultural aspect. By that I am referring to the fact that the Jews are arguably an Ethno-religious group; they have their own culture. Therefore would it not be a good idea for a ruler that became a Jew (in the religious sense) be able to gain a Jewish culture at some point after his/her conversion?

On slightly different note...

ARAB AND CELTIC PAGANISM!!!! ARAB AND CELTIC PAGANISM!!!! ARAB AND CELTIC PAGANISM!!!! ARAB AND CELTIC PAGANISM!!!!
 
I'm surprised that I haven't seen any Converter-related questions:

Will heresies now be able to be converted over to EUIV?

If a heresy, such as Catharism, replaces the "orthodox" religion, how will that be converted to EUIV? Will the then predominantly Cathar Europe be converted as such or will it still be considered Catholic by the converter?
 
The revamp of heresies is a truely great idea. But I think it would be great for there to be an opportunity for these heresies to become schisms of particular religions. Doing so would allow for religions like the Druze and Ibadi Islam to carry through to EUIV, and would genuinely improve both CK2 and EUIV.

In the case of Judaism; will there be special interactions for Jewish rulers conversing with Christian and Muslim ones (and vice versa)?
Also I think it might be interesting to experiment with a Jewish cultural aspect. By that I am referring to the fact that the Jews are arguably an Ethno-religious group; they have their own culture. Therefore would it not be a good idea for a ruler that became a Jew (in the religious sense) be able to gain a Jewish culture at some point after his/her conversion?

I agree, especially given that it is customary to forget that a convert wasn't born Jewish. So there should be an event whereby a ruler who converts to Judaism will adopt a Jewish culture. I'm hoping to see other Jewish cultures apart from Ashkenazic, Sephardic, and Mizrahim, like the Yemenite Jews, the Ethiopian Jews, and of course my people, the Krymchaks.

On slightly different note...

ARAB AND CELTIC PAGANISM!!!! ARAB AND CELTIC PAGANISM!!!! ARAB AND CELTIC PAGANISM!!!! ARAB AND CELTIC PAGANISM!!!!

I approve.
 
Doomdark said:
For example, the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre (an Orthodox Holy Order) becomes active if Antioch and Jerusalem are Orthodox and held by Orthodox rulers.

The Orthodox don't call it the Holy Sepulchre; they call it the Church of the Resurrection (Anastasis, in Greek). 'Holy Sepulchre' is the term used by Latin Christians, i.e. Catholics (and later Protestant). So the Orthodox would call it the 'Brotherhood of the Resurrection'.

Mind you, the Orthodox Church consistently and repeatedly condemned the idea of holy war, even when Nikephoros II Phokas tried to encourage it, so they really shouldn't have a Holy Order at all. You'd be better to focus on other areas of the Orthodox Church.
 
The Orthodox don't call it the Holy Sepulchre; they call it the Church of the Resurrection (Anastasis, in Greek). 'Holy Sepulchre' is the term used by Latin Christians, i.e. Catholics (and later Protestant). So the Orthodox would call it the 'Brotherhood of the Resurrection'.

Mind you, the Orthodox Church consistently and repeatedly condemned the idea of holy war, even when Nikephoros II Phokas tried to encourage it, so they really shouldn't have a Holy Order at all. You'd be better to focus on other areas of the Orthodox Church.

Ehm... You know... It's a historical holy order. And this was his name. The name isn't from Paradox fantasy. And the order isn't too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_of_the_Holy_Sepulchre