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Thread: Tactical Espionage

  1. #1
    Field Marshal Kensai7's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Tactical Espionage

    I would really like to see HOI3 TFH kind of tactical espionage (scout, sabotage, etc) become much more elaborated and balanced. I was reading about the 1960 U2 shotdown, rather facinating piece of history. Do you think it can pair with the already announced espionage system in some ways?
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    M.I.A 2Coats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kensai7 View Post
    I would really like to see HOI3 TFH kind of tactical espionage (scout, sabotage, etc) become much more elaborated and balanced. I was reading about the 1960 U2 shotdown, rather facinating piece of history. Do you think it can pair with the already announced espionage system in some ways?
    So you mean units that "add" something to the overall intel. picture?
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  3. #3
    Field Marshal Kensai7's Avatar
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    Well, the tactical options, so to speak, in HOI3 were shaping the operations on the map in a less strategic way. But I guess for example a U2 overfly in the Cold War could be the equivalent of the "steal local battle plans" dissolution of the fog of war for a small period of time. This can be different from the rest of the subterfuge (spies) missions.
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  4. #4
    A u2 flight could give you effectively line of sight on the province(s) that it flies over, so you could see exactly the makeup of the units stationed there allowing you to scout out locations of troops and equipment, as well as any structures (if the game has structures tied to the province).

    You would have to watch out though in case the enemy has anti air capable of shooting down your U2, but that capability didn't happen until later.
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  5. #5
    Field Marshal Kensai7's Avatar
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    That's how I see it, yes. Indeed a flyover could pinpoint on the map various enemy structures, including missile silos, centrifuges, remote bases, etc. Now that I've mentioned it: I would really like to see some kind of "fog of war" regarding all military and civilian structures in a foreign country unless operatives (spies) or tactical missions discover them. This should be valid up to the advent of the satellites.
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  6. #6
    General Magyar1988's Avatar
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    You should read the DD about espionage.

  7. #7
    Field Marshal Kensai7's Avatar
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    You should be more specific.
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  8. #8
    Field Marshal Kensai7's Avatar
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    Btw, OT, but interesting. The legacy lives on!
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  9. #9
    The way I see it there are tons of potential ISR (intelligence/surveillance/reconnaissance) platforms developed in this era that could provide the ability to boost intel in areas. Purely from the US standpoint, the obvious U-2 and SR-71, but also the AWACS, JSTARS, E-2, Rivet Joint, and other platforms were designed to provide a strategic and tactical level intelligence picture of large areas. Some of those provided one-off snapshots of the areas in question (via flyovers) and others, with long on-station and loiter time (thanks to air to air refueling) provided continuous intelligence using orbits near the areas of interest.

    Not only that, but the CIA's radiation-detecting rail car project (forget the name) that traveled the Trans-Siberian Railroad detecting Soviet test sites, something like that could provide what you're looking for. Plus there's airborne or stealth-inserted ground units that can provide accurate recon? Just throwing ideas out there.

    Hopefully there's a plethora of options like these we'll be able to use.

  10. #10
    The hope of an IQ-free country MaximusII's Avatar
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    There should be a way of making "patrol areas" for your airforce and navy, so you never get fog of war over certain provinces, like Sweden over the Baltic, the US and USSR over the Pacific, etc. This could ofc lead to political crises, if,let's say the Soviets shoots down an American spy plane.

  11. #11
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    Killmaster Kaiz, I like your ideas, but BLogic should be careful not to make tactical espionage a micromanagement nightmare. Therefore, MaximusII's approach sounds very interesting.
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  12. #12
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    I think this would be way overpowered in EvW.
    The fact that you can send a small/inexpensive plane to any province and reveal everything in there isn't balanced.
    Those planes (or any scout mission) goes to a specific area and checks that out and surely that area isn't the size of a province.
    I would rather see this done with the Covert Ops points and than give you a success chance to reveal (certain) units/buildings.

  13. #13
    Field Marshal Kensai7's Avatar
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    It will reveal everything but for a small duration of time, perhaps two-three days. That's much less overpowered than the "steal local plans" of HOI3 which sees more for much more. Essentially I envision a plane revealing only above the regions it passes (far less) and for a very limited amount of time, useful mostly in tactical situations and to find perhaps where the rival silos are hidden. If the plane gets shot down, perhaps it could trigger a chain of events.
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  14. #14
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    you guys do realize that, even if the country being spied on can't shoot down the offending object (USSR vs USA), they can still counter with their own counterespionage efforts. just because you see a division of nuclear powered supersonic flying twin turret main battle tanks, it may not actually be there. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight?
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  15. #15
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    Yes. Tactical espionage is exactly that. Short-term battlefield recon that may not be there the next month or so. Ground units move after all, especially if spotted. Another idea of implementation could be that of "false positives". A spy plane might notice an ICBM silo which actually is not there, creating a false positive signal on the map that has to be revealed for its truthfulness by ground troops or other means, once the fog of war goes for good.
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