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A question about De Jure Duchies

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Hello! I've logged nearly 40 hours in this game and I still consider myself a beginner. Never posted on the forum so here goes! (Edit: guess I have posted a few before...)

I do believe I understand the difference between "de facto" and "de jure" in terms, but there is one question that has eluded me for some time, even after research on the internet. Where do the European De Jure Duchies originate? Case in point, looking at the De Jure map mode even in 867, the Duchy of Kent consists of three counties. When were these De Jure Duchies established in history? Who first said "By law (tradition), The Duchy of Kent shall consist of the counties of Kent, Surrey, and Sussex."?

Just something that I've always been curious about. If this has been asked in the wrong forum, I do apologize. It's just something I can't let go. "Because that's the way it is" was never enough, I need to always ask why. :)
 
Well, Kent wasn't historically a Duchy until the early 18th century before that it was an Earldom... And the Feudal system didn't really work the way Crusader Kings 2 has it work, in a lot of ways.
 
It depends on the duchy in question. Quite a few were actually based on the provinces of the Roman empire via the dioceses and archdioceses already established when the Western Roman Empire fell. Some were dictated by various rulers, such as the division of Lotharingia into Upper and Lower Lotharingia or the granting of Normandy to Rollo. A great deal of the German ones are called stem duchies and were based on the traditional territory of German tribes. Most of the Greek duchies are based on the themes. The duchies around Jerusalem are largely based on the divisions of the Crusader states in that area. The Russian duchies are mostly derived from the various divisions of land between the Rurikids.
 
Jaywebbs said:
Well, Kent wasn't historically a Duchy until the early 18th century before that it was an Earldom... And the Feudal system didn't really work the way Crusader Kings 2 has it work, in a lot of ways.
Click to expand...

But a earldom in Anglo-Saxon England was mostly a duchy. The term Earldom was just downgraded by the Normans.
 
Thure said:
But a earldom in Anglo-Saxon England was mostly a duchy. The term Earldom was just downgraded by the Normans.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Confusingly, 'earl' is derived from the same etymology as the norse 'jarl', which of course is a higher-level title in CK2.

I can't beat what aitaituo said, but I will add that de jure territory is and was predominantly informal - it represents what the place was commonly seen as in people's imagination. For instance, while Northumbrians, Wessexiands and Mercians thought themselves unique and different to one another, they all had a greater common identity that seperated them from the Scots, for instance - hence England (Angle-land) and Scotland having identities before England ever existed.
 
Thure said:
But a earldom in Anglo-Saxon England was mostly a duchy. The term Earldom was just downgraded by the Normans.
Click to expand...
In fairness, it only started being seriously downgraded something like two centuries after the conquest, and it only took on its present position with the later creation of a highly stratified and almost entirely ceremonial peerage. At the time of the Anarchy, the earls were still the highest nobles after the King and there was only seven of them in all England.
 
smeggy said:
.. untill some dynasty member accidentally brutally stabbed himself while falling of a wall into exploding manure.
Click to expand...

blackadder ?
 
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