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Thread: Different types of Peace?

  1. #1
    First Lieutenant PotatoMan's Avatar
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    Different types of Peace?

    For Example:

    I am Egypt, I want 3 provinces in Libya. Oh wait! I can only fully annex them, make them a puppet or install a certain government. Well there goes my plans of getting those 3 provinces since I don't want to fully annex them.

    I am Egypt, Libya declares war on me wanting to make me a puppet, I start winning the war push them back into the country, I don't want to full annex them but maybe take a couple provinces from them, have they pay me money for repairs and then have peace... OH WAIT!!! I can't do that, seems like I'll have to deal with every country hating me now since I just annexed Egypt.

    I am Russia, Declare war on US, war seems to not be progressing and a winner can not be seen, my government wants peace. Oh silly me! I forgot this was a HOI 3 game and alliances (PACTS) have to fight to the death. There goes my plans of whatever my plans are.

    You see what I mean? I want different ways to have pace. I know some of you are like "Ya know there is a take territory war goal", of course I know that. I still don't want to have to have this certain amount of land. I WANT TO CHOOSE THE EXACT AMOUNT, I don't want to have to fully annex the country I am at war with since we are both in alliances/pacts, I want to have a reasonable peace which should be available, I have never heard of the international law saying two alliances/pacts can't declare peace.
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  2. #2
    I Fus Roh'ed, then he Dah'ed aruon's Avatar
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    yeah. I never really understood HOI's all or nothing approach. even if your casus belli was for a certain region, you still had to conquer THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. which kinda defeats the purpose. I hope that mechanic is overhauled.
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  3. #3
    Central Trading Post Agent WaffleTheBard's Avatar
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    Peace with honor

  4. #4
    I Fus Roh'ed, then he Dah'ed aruon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaffleTheBard View Post
    Peace with honor
    battle without honor or humanity.
    (great song)
    beware, my fellow forumites, for some of my posts may contain comedic wankery. or even seriousness! that is all.

    "I met the two strippers, JFK and Stalin"- something I saw written on my college teacher's whiteboard recently

    "what is the definition of a will? it's a dead giveaway."

    He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood shall have eternal life - the Walking Dead

    All hail Karlomagne! King of the Franks! - the general opinion of whoever plays the Charlemagne DLC for CK2

  5. #5
    It will really ruin the game for me if we can't annex individual provinces

  6. #6
    Field Marshal Thure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aruon View Post
    yeah. I never really understood HOI's all or nothing approach. even if your casus belli was for a certain region, you still had to conquer THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. which kinda defeats the purpose. I hope that mechanic is overhauled.
    No. It's not "HOI's all or nothing approach". It's "HOI3's all or nothing approach". It was possible in HoI2 and, I think in HoI1. This was one of the changes, why I dislike HoI3. I had the same problem with Victoria II. I want to reconquere Neuchatel as Prussia? Okay... But I have to annex the whole region 'Western Swiss' for it. This was annoying. I want just that province. Not the whole region

    I really hope peacy treaties are more like in HoI2 here.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by aruon View Post
    yeah. I never really understood HOI's all or nothing approach. even if your casus belli was for a certain region, you still had to conquer THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. which kinda defeats the purpose. I hope that mechanic is overhauled.
    Actually it makes sense for HOI normally being that the game is about WW2

    However, I think that the diplomacy needs to be overhauled majorly for a cold war game.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyshan View Post
    Actually it makes sense for HOI normally being that the game is about WW2

    However, I think that the diplomacy needs to be overhauled majorly for a cold war game.
    No. WW2 wasn't just annexation of whole countries. This didn't make sense too. Germany never want to annex whole Britain. They would just take the Channel Islands eventually. Italy would annex Malta, Suez. Spain Gibraltar. And then they would make a puppet. This isn't possible in HoI3 without events. I really hate this system. This is one of the points why I think HoI2 is much better then HoI3.

  9. #9
    Field Marshal Kensai7's Avatar
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    You are all wrong. As Axis you could perfectly annex ONLY the regions you had cores in, either through events or war. The mechanism in HOI3 was present, but it was not available for all countries and purposes. The questions are different: (1) do we need single-region choice like it was in Yugoslavia and Greece in HOI3 or groups of regions? and (2) is limited annexation a valid mechanism for EvW's era? Most people I read here seem to have completely misunderstood the purpose and dynamics of this game and still dream about creating their Byzantium annexing little here and little there.

    I really hope the AI kicks the butt of such player behavior. If you go annex something that is not your own, the whole world should unite to kick your butt.
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  10. #10
    I havent read this thread yet, but i think we should be able to ask what provinces we want.

  11. #11
    I Fus Roh'ed, then he Dah'ed aruon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikssims View Post
    I havent read this thread yet, but i think we should be able to ask what provinces we want.
    damn right. Europa Universalis IV does this perfectly. and that game only has about 2000 usable land provinces!
    beware, my fellow forumites, for some of my posts may contain comedic wankery. or even seriousness! that is all.

    "I met the two strippers, JFK and Stalin"- something I saw written on my college teacher's whiteboard recently

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  12. #12
    Major Il Moro's Avatar
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    Multiple annexation options is the way to go, I, as the winner, have the right to choose what I want, I could want just one province or multiple provinces or to annex the whole defeated country.

    And if I'm losing the war I should have the option to start a peace agreement, by offering provinces to my enemy.

    The AI must be more reasonable than the "all or nothing" cliche of HoI 3, also because I see difficult a total annexation of a defeated country during cold war, Israel had won every arab-israeli war but they didn't annexed the whole of Siria or Egypt, they had taken the Sinai and the Golan Heights.

  13. #13
    We should be able to ask for war reparations as well.

    Also, will the old engine handle all this well (stability and fps wise) ? Its my only concern about the of the game so far.
    Last edited by Avindian; 08-09-2013 at 14:49. Reason: Removed text against forum rules

  14. #14
    I Fus Roh'ed, then he Dah'ed aruon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikssims View Post
    Also, will the old engine handle all this well (stability and fps wise) ? Its my only concern about the of the game so far.
    dude, old man Clausewitz may be getting up there in game engine years, but it's still the undisputed kingpin of grand strategy engines (do note that PI themselves essentially coined the term "grand strategy"). hell, know the old Europa engine (predecessor of Clausewitz) that was first used when paradox interactive and paradox entertainment were formed from Target Games in 1999? that thing is 13 years old and it's still being used! (darkest hour, 2011)

    trust me, the only problems that the hardcode developers will/have with the EvW game, is integrating things like flag switching and country switching, which are foreign to the hearts of iron base code.

    as for FPS issues, using my home computer as an example, its weakest piece or hardware is the video card- a Radeon integrated 4200. (AKA suuuuuuuuuucks badly for most games). the latest PI game, EU 4, it's minimum preferential requirement is at least a Radeon 3500. if my computer can handle spammed out game screens (like HOI 3 TFH with random scenario + 300 countries) with only a little bit of lag, yours can too. (unless it's an old laptop, but that's another story.)
    Last edited by aruon; 07-09-2013 at 22:01.
    beware, my fellow forumites, for some of my posts may contain comedic wankery. or even seriousness! that is all.

    "I met the two strippers, JFK and Stalin"- something I saw written on my college teacher's whiteboard recently

    "what is the definition of a will? it's a dead giveaway."

    He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood shall have eternal life - the Walking Dead

    All hail Karlomagne! King of the Franks! - the general opinion of whoever plays the Charlemagne DLC for CK2

  15. #15
    I Fus Roh'ed, then he Dah'ed aruon's Avatar
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    as for getting back on the topic at hand, I also still agree with potatoman on the factions part. just because factions are at war, doesn't really mean they can't stop fighting. that being said, "sanity" was a dirty word during the WWII era. then it became a mildly unsociable word during the cold war, while nowadays, some people either have far too much, or none at all.

    i'm still hopeful that the "endless factional war" mechanic is fixed out for EvW though. seeing as how the soviets and C. Chinese really never had much more that a platonic relationship. and even then, it was somewhat strained to begin with.

    same thing with the USA, and most of the rest of the world.
    Last edited by aruon; 07-09-2013 at 22:04.
    beware, my fellow forumites, for some of my posts may contain comedic wankery. or even seriousness! that is all.

    "I met the two strippers, JFK and Stalin"- something I saw written on my college teacher's whiteboard recently

    "what is the definition of a will? it's a dead giveaway."

    He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood shall have eternal life - the Walking Dead

    All hail Karlomagne! King of the Franks! - the general opinion of whoever plays the Charlemagne DLC for CK2

  16. #16
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  17. #17
    If I were to face only one outcome of the war (that being my imminent annexation), and I knew I was about to loose (say Israel vs. the whole Middle East ganging up on me and me not having the USA backing me), I would without a second of hesitation launch 100% of my nuclear armament at the country about to win in an attempt to turn the tide or out of pure revenge. That's why having only one way to end the war (full annexation) is really stupid in the Cold War period. I'd much prefer EU's style or maybe even Vicky's style of taking provinces/regions one by one.

    The above scenario would be imminent, notably in multiplayer, should there be no other possible way to end a war.

  18. #18
    I Fus Roh'ed, then he Dah'ed aruon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanX View Post
    If I were to face only one outcome of the war (that being my imminent annexation), and I knew I was about to loose (say Israel vs. the whole Middle East ganging up on me and me not having the USA backing me), I would without a second of hesitation launch 100% of my nuclear armament at the country about to win in an attempt to turn the tide or out of pure revenge. That's why having only one way to end the war (full annexation) is really stupid in the Cold War period. I'd much prefer EU's style or maybe even Vicky's style of taking provinces/regions one by one.

    The above scenario would be imminent, notably in multiplayer, should there be no other possible way to end a war.
    yeah, but think of how many countries have/had enough nukes to be able to pull off a last ditch murder/suicide. Russia, china, America, UK, and France are signatories of the non-proliferation treaty, South Africa had about 10 in the 80s, India is not a signatory of the NPT (Pakistan and N. Korea didn't have nukes till after the CW, and Israel is assumed to have nukes (though they will never admit it).

    I doubt most non-superpower nuclear armed countries would nuke-icide if beaten in EvW. though if your talking about Israel, they actually have a nuclear contingency plan in place in the event of an arab-israeli war going bad. it depends on the developers.
    beware, my fellow forumites, for some of my posts may contain comedic wankery. or even seriousness! that is all.

    "I met the two strippers, JFK and Stalin"- something I saw written on my college teacher's whiteboard recently

    "what is the definition of a will? it's a dead giveaway."

    He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood shall have eternal life - the Walking Dead

    All hail Karlomagne! King of the Franks! - the general opinion of whoever plays the Charlemagne DLC for CK2

  19. #19
    But what I'm saying ^^ is that having only one way to end a war - by annexing - is ridiculously stupid and risky. Even a conventional war can turn into a nuclear one just because the loosing side gets all pissy and says "well Removed - Had a dad it, I'm dying anyways, might as well nuke everyone else".

    That's too dangerous and I don't think that even the aggressor would want to completely annex a nuclear superpower.
    Last edited by Had a dad; 13-09-2013 at 05:29.

  20. #20
    I Fus Roh'ed, then he Dah'ed aruon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanX View Post
    But what I'm saying ^^ is that having only one way to end a war - by annexing - is ridiculously stupid and risky. Even a conventional war can turn into a nuclear one just because the loosing side gets all pissy and says "well Removed - Had a dad it, I'm dying anyways, might as well nuke everyone else".

    That's too dangerous and I don't think that even the aggressor would want to completely annex a nuclear superpower.
    well that goes without saying, but really how often will a superpower or a nuclear equipped major power get annexed? EvW, as opposed to literally every other PI grand strategy game, is oriented more towards survival and political domination instead of the conquest of your enemies and the lamentations of their women. but just because I conquer London doesn't mean that the UK will be "oh well, looks like London bridge is falling down again". hopefully there's a mechanic in place that allows for the transfer of nukes to another allied country's territory (like a government in exile function or like IRL) or most likely, the nukes just disappear from the game like the rest of the losing country's military.
    Last edited by Had a dad; 13-09-2013 at 05:30.
    beware, my fellow forumites, for some of my posts may contain comedic wankery. or even seriousness! that is all.

    "I met the two strippers, JFK and Stalin"- something I saw written on my college teacher's whiteboard recently

    "what is the definition of a will? it's a dead giveaway."

    He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood shall have eternal life - the Walking Dead

    All hail Karlomagne! King of the Franks! - the general opinion of whoever plays the Charlemagne DLC for CK2

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