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Jews and CK2
- Thread starter Will Moran
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That's fine - doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Andrew: "Gosh, I think Bobby is mistreating those people."
Charlie: "Don't say that! Daddy will punish us if he hears you."
If calling out garbage means the thread gets closed, that's not my problem.
This would be a believable line of reasoning if it weren't for the constant minimization of actual Jewish kingdoms, like Khazaria and Semien. Especially when you say:
This is a joke, right? You realize this happens to the West Africans and Zoroastrians in EVERY SINGLE GAME unless the player is playing them?
If this is supposed to be a remotely historical game there is absolutely zero reasons for keeping Jews out except the cowardice of the developers.
There were Israel AARs in HOI2. They were neither closed nor attracted any haters. However none of them really progressed. I suppose writers got borred very fast.
Except for the position of "we want to do it right", and the ongoing debate over whether the Khazars and Semien were in fact Jewish, or just claiming to be so to avoid being caught up in the Christian/Islamic wars.
You then have how to represent the Jews - the (possibly) Jewish countries of the era weren't particularly expansionist; you'd have to sort out the decisions and ambitions for them; you'd have to work out which CB they have access to, and if they need to have any specific new ones created; you'd need to designate their Holy Cities, and make sure they aren't all too close to each other - off the top of my head I can think of Jerusalem, and no others - and whether it counts as "reformed" already.
It is not like I am trying to deny, but did Lithuanian Grand Dukes expelled jews between the 13th and 16th centuries?
I would like that too. Being a jew, I'm sure I would jump at the chance to create a jewish kingdom. But speaking from the dev's point of view (which I can only guesstimate), the reward just wouldn't be worth the time and effort. Although if they were solely motivated by money, then why not, jews are pretty popular lol.
Paradox don't want jews in CK2, because they are afraid the game will be banned after a neo-nazi will put a video on youtube, killing all jew characters. Why do you think that the jews and Israel don't appear in any historical game like EU type, Total war, Civ, Age of Empires, Empire Earth and many others?
If they are afraid of that, then why are there Jews in Vicky 2? And what would Jews bring to gameplay in TW, Civ and AoE? And also, Jews atleast existed in MTW.
The reason Jews aren't in the game is not because the developers think they'll offend someone. After all they have the Trail of Tears as a voluntary decision in Victoria 2, and the Jumping Jews of Jerusalem as an event in CK2.
Real reason is they believe it wouldn't be much of an addition and don't think there are enough places to put Jewish characters. I don't think they have considered, though, the Jewish trade guilds like the Radhanites that existing through the game's time period and the benefits some sort of land-trade or river-trade system would have for all game religions. If Judaism and overland republics were bundled together it would be an excellent DLC.
Real reason is they believe it wouldn't be much of an addition and don't think there are enough places to put Jewish characters. I don't think they have considered, though, the Jewish trade guilds like the Radhanites that existing through the game's time period and the benefits some sort of land-trade or river-trade system would have for all game religions. If Judaism and overland republics were bundled together it would be an excellent DLC.
This, I support, as it gives more factions which could use the Jewish faith.
Wrong. If Paradox was afraid of "outrage" of some group of people, they wouldnt ever have made Tibet a independent country in games like HoI, which is why its banned in china. Go figure.
That's pretty much why. Add a bunch of Jews, a new religion and ethnic group and call it done. What fun would that be? Whats the point of just having a hastily-thrown together religion and ethnic group? Everyone could do that as a mod after all. The reason we dont have jews is because they didnt exactly rule, well maybe a tiny percentage did, but never at a level where they ruled a few duchies, kingdoms or even a empire. You could have jew vassals of course, but there in goes the problem with how they were treated during the time, which isnt exactly pretty. So Paradox first has to figure out how to make them interesting and fun and historically viable before they are actually added.
But criticism? Eh..no matter what people have claimed in this thread, there would be criticism no matter what they do. Paradox gets criticism for not having jews. So they add jews. Next Paradox gets hatemail because the game doesnt show just how big assholes christians and muslims were to jews. So they change that. And suddenly another batch of hatemail because they "glorify the suffering of the jewish people". You absolutely cant please everyone in this situation. So to be entirely honest? Not having Jews in the game might be for the best.
I don't remember Jews in CK1.And in Victoria you can't have genocides or tagreted extincions of people.That's why.And they don't have any special mechanics,they act like every other culture,so I can't understand all the hassle about the fact that they are in Victoria
They were in one county in the Crimea in CK1. Yeah, and people wonder why PDS didn't implement Jews into CK2.
EDIT: The reason why the Jews are added in Vicky is the fact that it handles the population more than any other PDS game, so the Jews become important.
Please, read the previous posts in this thread, at the very least. Paradox hasn't "refused to add Jewish characters" under any fear that adding Jews into the game would be controversial...
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In CK2 you can execute characters, not whole nations. If it's an offense to kill a Jewish character, then it should be an offence to kill any character. In the game you don't execute people because of their culture or religion. You execute them for being traitors mostly. CK2 is not racist towards any culture or religion. Simple reason why Paradox didn't include Judaism is because there is no suitable way to represent it currently.....they didn't say that they will never add it.
Yeah, Doomdark said on a stream in May I think that the Jews are a "never say never" situation.