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Thread: Is holland independent?

  1. #1

    Is holland independent?

    Will in EU4 holland be independent? Because I'm planning to play in a mp game and I can't be a vassal according to the rules.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal hjarg's Avatar
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    Well, Netherlands will become an independent nation when they got themselves historically free. Before that, they are just part of Burgundy first, then Spain, not even vassals.
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  3. #3
    No. Mostly cause its apart of first Burgundy then the Netherlands for most of recorded history.

  4. #4
    Ow okay, then I will have to find another country perhaps, thank you both for the fast response.

  5. #5
    A mod can close this btw.

  6. #6
    Colonel Hargrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjarg View Post
    Well, Netherlands will become an independent nation when they got themselves historically free. Before that, they are just part of Burgundy first, then Spain, not even vassals.
    Well, Netherlands might become an independent nation when they got themselves historically free. Before that, they are just part of Burgundy first and, if they have a heir problem, they are inherited by the HRE

    ps: But, you can begin the game as Burgundy, and, form the Kingdom od Netherlands if you want.

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    Hostile native Brownbeard's Avatar
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    Or start at a later date and play as Netherlands. Or import your Duchy of Holland from CK2 and teach that King of Frisia and his Holy Roman Emperor a lesson.
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  8. #8
    Captain Ograv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hargrave View Post
    ps: But, you can begin the game as Burgundy, and, form the Kingdom od Netherlands if you want.
    I'm curious about this actually. Can Burgundy form the Netherlands, or France? I know it could in EU3 but ideas might complicate things. If it can, does it keep Burgundian ideas? Or switch to Dutch/French ones? Same would go for the Teutonic Order forming Prussia, etc.

    I'm assuming you cannot form France/Netherlands as Burgundy, or if you can you'd keep the Burgundian ideas. Oh well, I guess we'll find out in a week.

  9. #9
    Lt. General Nilmerf's Avatar
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    In the inevitable expansion to an earlier date, they will be. It was much easier forming the Netherlands with Holland starting in 1399 than with one of the other Dutch minors at another time.

    EDIT: I assume you can form France as Burgundy (but any Burgundy fan wouldn't want to!) but not the Netherlands unless you did a culture switch.

  10. #10
    Colonel Hargrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ograv View Post
    I'm curious about this actually. Can Burgundy form the Netherlands, or France? I know it could in EU3 but ideas might complicate things. If it can, does it keep Burgundian ideas? Or switch to Dutch/French ones? Same would go for the Teutonic Order forming Prussia, etc.

    I'm assuming you cannot form France/Netherlands as Burgundy, or if you can you'd keep the Burgundian ideas. Oh well, I guess we'll find out in a week.
    Well, I remember a special decision to do so, so, I read the DD about Burgundy and the Netherlands http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...-and-a-pancake but, somehow, I find nothing about it.

  11. #11
    Lt. General Nilmerf's Avatar
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    Burgundian is in the French culture group, so they can form France but not the Netherlands without a culture switch. It would be weak for gameplay reasons too, because they only need to take over a couple of Dutch minors.

  12. #12
    Field Marshal Illanair's Avatar
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    Form France? France already exists - There is nothing to form.

    Burgundy is able to form the Netherlands, but will lose cores doing so.
    I also go by Mansen in the Steam groups.

    "I understand making a converter takes effort [...] should be free!!
    Maybe the game studio "Paradox" is named in honor of its fans.

  13. #13
    Colonel Hargrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illanair View Post
    Form France? France already exists - There is nothing to form.

    Burgundy is able to form the Netherlands, but will lose cores doing so.
    But, do you mean with a culture switch, or wiath a special decision ?

  14. #14
    Field Marshal Illanair's Avatar
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    Decision event - Just like England forming the UK.
    I also go by Mansen in the Steam groups.

    "I understand making a converter takes effort [...] should be free!!
    Maybe the game studio "Paradox" is named in honor of its fans.

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    Hostile native Brownbeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illanair View Post
    Form France? France already exists - There is nothing to form.

    Burgundy is able to form the Netherlands, but will lose cores doing so.
    If you are playing Burgundy and Paris is French, then you are not doing it right.
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  16. #16
    Colonel Hargrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illanair View Post
    Decision event - Just like England forming the UK.
    Well, I remember this decision, but I don't see any trace of it as well though I'm sure of having read about it. Do you have a DD or anywherre when this decision is written ? (Because I think I'm gonna get crazy if I don't see any proof I'm not crazy, yeah.)

  17. #17
    Field Marshal Illanair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownbeard View Post
    If you are playing Burgundy and Paris is French, then you are not doing it right.
    Perhaps not - But talking of forming France is just silly.
    I also go by Mansen in the Steam groups.

    "I understand making a converter takes effort [...] should be free!!
    Maybe the game studio "Paradox" is named in honor of its fans.

  18. #18
    Lt. General Nilmerf's Avatar
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    Why is forming France as Burgundy silly? In Crusader Kings terms, it's like the Duke of Burgundy claiming the throne of his French king and winning. I prefer to play a different sort of Burgundy, however, and definitely keep the cooler map colour.

    It's this talking of forming the Netherlands as Burgundy that's just wrong. Unless you switch your culture you can't do this; to be the Dutch you have to be Dutch. Take a look at the EU3 event code, and nothing from any EU4 material I've seen says it's changed.

    Code:
    	netherlands_nation = {
    		potential = {
    			NOT = { exists = NED }
    			NOT = { tag = PAP }
    			NOT = { tag = HRE }
    			OR = {
    				primary_culture = dutch
    				primary_culture = flemish
    			}

  19. #19
    Mercenary Captain spinoza013's Avatar
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    This is a month old beta timelapse in observer mode but Netherlands managed to form by mid 1567.

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  20. #20
    Colonel Hargrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nilmerf View Post
    Why is forming France as Burgundy silly? In Crusader Kings terms, it's like the Duke of Burgundy claiming the throne of his French king and winning. I prefer to play a different sort of Burgundy, however, and definitely keep the cooler map colour.

    It's this talking of forming the Netherlands as Burgundy that's just wrong. Unless you switch your culture you can't do this; to be the Dutch you have to be Dutch. Take a look at the EU3 event code, and nothing from any EU4 material I've seen says it's changed.

    Code:
    	netherlands_nation = {
    		potential = {
    			NOT = { exists = NED }
    			NOT = { tag = PAP }
    			NOT = { tag = HRE }
    			OR = {
    				primary_culture = dutch
    				primary_culture = flemish
    			}
    I think you are not understanding, both Illanair and me remember of this special decision, so, unless we both are crazy, I guess that this decision must have been presented somewhere and supressed later, or maybe something else.

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