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Very lone king... I can't explain what happened

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pcoud

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Currently playing my first CK II game, and learning. I am a duke in the kingdom of France, vassal of the King of France. I was quietly fighting some De Jure claim wars when all of a sudden I noticed I had no liege anymore. Actually, there was no kingdom of France anymore, all vassals had become independant. I found the King of France: he's living in Paris, his only title is "King of France", no county, no duchy, no baronny, 0 vassal, nothing. Before I noticed all this, I think (but I am not sure) that there was a faction fighting for independance. I also think there was a succession in the meantime (former King died), but even though, any idea what happened? Thx!
Oh, and as usual with Paradox, great, great game!!
 
Sounds like a bug, but I don't have enough info for any conclusion. One possibility is that the King was somehow made landless, and thus his titles were destroyed. For instance, the AI sometimes likes (for some reason) to have a demense size of 1. If that got taken from him, WHAM no kingdom of France.
 
If the king, lost all his vassals to revolts and then some outside force won a war for his land all his titles would be destroyed.
 
It has been a while, but I believe that, under some circumstances, vassals pressing a faction claim can become independant without wining a war. Not sure which ones, nor if it is WAD or not. It is weird though, that the king as no vassals at all. I've had my king liege, once, left with only a baronny and baron tier vassals (I personally held the county after taking it away from him), but in fact, he would need to have a baronny at least to still be able to be king.
 
Had the same happen in my game about a week ago. Suddenly noticed that the Queen of Wales had changed, had no vassals, owned not even a barony, and was in fact residing in the Duchy of Gwynedd, which was my (England's) vassal.

The explanation of Ultima Ratio seems the likeliest, IMO.
 
Thanks for your replies.
The same kind of thing happened to me again: I have now become King of Aquitaine and all of sudden I noticed that one my Duchies, the Duchy of Burgundy, had disappeared and got split into 4 independant counties. But this time, I made some reloads / saves and I think I figured out what happened.
The Duchess of Burgundy was my vassal. The Duchy of Burgundy had 4 counties: Auxerre, Charolais, Macon, Chalons. It happened that Godefroy, who was a baron in the county of Macon owned a strong claim on the Duchy of Burgundy. The Count of Charolais used this opportunity to create the "Godefroy for Burgundy faction". The Count of Charolais sent the ultimatum to Duchess of Burgundy, she refused ---> war. The Count of Charolais won the war, but in the war process (winning battles and sieging holdings), he had also sieged Godefroy's baronny, so when Godefroy got the Duke of Burgundy title as the normal outcome of the faction winning the war, he was actually landless. The minute he got the title all former vassals became independant. Godefroy is now living in Dijon, he is still owning the title of Duke of Burgundy, but is landless and vassal-less.
I think this happens whenever a landless individual (for some reason) gets a title one way or another.
Is that WAD? I don't know. What I find weird in my above example is why did the Count of Charolais sieged Godefroy's baronny during the war since he was leading the "Godefroy for Burgundy" faction? When the faction engaged in war, Godefroy should have been considered a revolter to Duchess of Burgundy, and his baronny should have been seen as friendly territory by Count of Charolais, shouldn't it?
 
pcoud said:
Thanks for your replies.
The same kind of thing happened to me again: I have now become King of Aquitaine and all of sudden I noticed that one my Duchies, the Duchy of Burgundy, had disappeared and got split into 4 independant counties. But this time, I made some reloads / saves and I think I figured out what happened.
The Duchess of Burgundy was my vassal. The Duchy of Burgundy had 4 counties: Auxerre, Charolais, Macon, Chalons. It happened that Godefroy, who was a baron in the county of Macon owned a strong claim on the Duchy of Burgundy. The Count of Charolais used this opportunity to create the "Godefroy for Burgundy faction". The Count of Charolais sent the ultimatum to Duchess of Burgundy, she refused ---> war. The Count of Charolais won the war, but in the war process (winning battles and sieging holdings), he had also sieged Godefroy's baronny, so when Godefroy got the Duke of Burgundy title as the normal outcome of the faction winning the war, he was actually landless. The minute he got the title all former vassals became independant. Godefroy is now living in Dijon, he is still owning the title of Duke of Burgundy, but is landless and vassal-less.
I think this happens whenever a landless individual (for some reason) gets a title one way or another.
Is that WAD? I don't know. What I find weird in my above example is why did the Count of Charolais sieged Godefroy's baronny during the war since he was leading the "Godefroy for Burgundy" faction? When the faction engaged in war, Godefroy should have been considered a revolter to Duchess of Burgundy, and his baronny should have been seen as friendly territory by Count of Charolais, shouldn't it?
Click to expand...

This sounds like a bug to me.

But it's normal that Godefroy didn't rebel. If the claimant isn't himself part of the faction (and Godefroy wasn't since he was a baron), he won't revolt. It would be annoying if claimant wars automatically made you rebel, or if a 100 opinion vassal rebelled just because a faction tries to press his claim.
 
@ Kljunas: your post makes me wonder... My understanding was that when a faction was created to press a claimant's claim, the claimant's himself was of course also agreeing to press the claim. There is a war going on with the purpose of destituting Duchess of Burgundy and replacing her by Godefroy, I wouldn't expect Godefroy and the Duchess to be the best friends in the world.

Your answer implies that a faction can use XYZ's claim to destitute a ruler without XYZ agreeing to it (and being part of it)... That would sound weird to me (?).
 
pcoud said:
@ Kljunas: your post makes me wonder... My understanding was that when a faction was created to press a claimant's claim, the claimant's himself was of course also agreeing to press the claim. There is a war going on with the purpose of destituting Duchess of Burgundy and replacing her by Godefroy, I wouldn't expect Godefroy and the Duchess to be the best friends in the world.

Your answer implies that a faction can use XYZ's claim to destitute a ruler without XYZ agreeing to it (and being part of it)... That would sound weird to me (?).
Click to expand...

You don't have to agree for a faction to arise. And if the faction fails you'll end up in prison. If this happens in Byzantium you'll most likely end up without eyes and balls.
 
There's also some kind of bug involving vassals of vassals and combination of wars that can still result in people suddenly losing territory. I once lost territory by attacking someone and winning.
 
pcoud said:
he had also sieged Godefroy's baronny, so when Godefroy got the Duke of Burgundy title as the normal outcome of the faction winning the war, he was actually landless.
Click to expand...
But why? AFAIK, in a pretender faction war, no titles but the actually contested one are usurped, so at the end of the war, Godefroy should just have gotten his occupied barony back, as all the other loyal vassals of the deposed duke did. Is it possible to be a duke with just one barony-level holding as your demesne and no county-level titles nor barony-level vassals?
 
Schwungrad said:
But why? AFAIK, in a pretender faction war, no titles but the actually contested one are usurped, so at the end of the war, Godefroy should just have gotten his occupied barony back, as all the other loyal vassals of the deposed duke did. Is it possible to be a duke with just one barony-level holding as your demesne and no county-level titles nor barony-level vassals?
Click to expand...

I think so. The only requirement of being a duke, is to have a county. So, lets say, for arguements sake, You're a count level in Ireland, and are given a duchy in England, that you have no land in. If ireland is then taken over or you otherwise lose the county, you still are the duke in England
 
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