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eidur

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I never understood why Egypt starts so bad in Victoria. It should be either civilized nation or at least 70% westernized. 1830s were a really good time for Egypt, it wasnt much worse, if any than ottomans who start as a great power. They had some rebel troubles east of the Suez but we know how rebellions are handled in Vicky, see Carlists or CSA.

Muhammad Ali's reforms decision helps but it's not enough, imo Egypt should westernize at the same pace Japan does or even faster.

Is it because players needed some easy prey in Africa for colonisation?






Muhammad Ali’s goal was to establish a powerful, European-style state.[18] To do that, he had to reorganize Egyptian society, streamline the economy, train a professional bureaucracy, and build a modern military.

His first task was to secure a revenue stream for Egypt. To accomplish this, Muhammad Ali ‘nationalized’ all the land of Egypt, thereby officially owning all the production of the land. He accomplished the state annexation of property by raising taxes on the ‘tax-farmers’ who had previously owned the land throughout Egypt. The new taxes were intentionally high and when the tax-farmers could not extract the demanded payments from the peasants who worked the land, Muhammad Ali confiscated their properties.[19]

In practice, Muhammad Ali’s land reform amounted to a monopoly on trade in Egypt. He required all producers to sell their goods to the state. The state in turn resold Egyptian goods, within Egypt and to foreign markets, and retained the surplus. The practice proved very profitable for Egypt with the cultivation of long staple cotton. The new-found profits also extended down to the individual farmers, as the average wage increased fourfold.[20]

In addition to bolstering the agricultural sector, Muhammad Ali built an industrial base for Egypt. His motivation for doing so was primarily an effort to build a modern military. Consequently, he focused on weapons production. Factories based in Cairo produced muskets and cannons. With a shipyard he built in Alexandria, he began construction of a navy. By the end of the 1830s, Egypt’s war industries had constructed nine 100-gun warships and were turning out 1,600 muskets a month.[21]

However, the industrial innovations were not limited to weapons production. Muhammad Ali established a textile industry in an effort to compete with European industries and produce greater revenues for Egypt. While the textile industry was not successful, the entire endeavor employed tens of thousands of Egyptians.[21] Additionally, by hiring European managers, he was able to introduce industrial training to the Egyptian population.



Beyond building a functioning, industrial economy, Muhammad Ali also made an effort to train a professional military and bureaucracy. He sent promising citizens to Europe to study. Again the driving force behind the effort was to build a European-style army. Students were sent to study European languages, primarily French, so they could in turn translate military manuals into Arabic. He then used both educated Egyptians and imported European experts to establish schools and hospitals in Egypt. The European education also provided talented Egyptians with a means of social mobility.

A byproduct of Muhammad Ali’s training program was the establishment of a professional bureaucracy. Establishing an efficient central bureaucracy was an essential prerequisite for the success of Muhammad Ali’s other reforms. In the process of destroying the Mamluks, the Wāli had to fill the governmental roles that the Mamluks had previously filled. In doing so, Muhammad Ali kept all central authority for himself. He partitioned Egypt into ten provinces responsible for collecting taxes and maintaining order.[21] Muhammad Ali installed his sons in most key positions; however, his reforms did offer Egyptians opportunities beyond agriculture and industry.
 
A suggestion. Play Egypt, open the console and type "researchpoints 25000" a few times. I say 25k because that's the maximum amount of points you can store at a given moment. A civilized Egypt is on her way to painting all of Africa in her color; it's even worse if you mug Oman's colonies from her.
 
I agree that egypt was at least on par at the start time of the game.
But I think it would be more approriate to make the Ottomans an unciv and let both nations start with a high percentage of westernisation.
 
Is it because players needed some easy prey in Africa for colonisation?
Sokkoto, Oman, Yemen, Tunis, Algiers, Morocco, Transvaal, Zulu, whatever is in between, Hedjad, Liberia... You nab Egypt for other reasons. :)

Was Egypt really a player during this time? Like Great Power esque? Cause putting them up there with Japan will for sure mean they will hit GP status.
 
Was Egypt really a player during this time? Like Great Power esque? Cause putting them up there with Japan will for sure mean they will hit GP status.

Yes, they were a "player", but no "GP". They were militarily far advanced, on par with the Ottoman Empire if not stronger (Thats what I recall). They also had a lot of support from the French government. Then again I doubt Egypt will become a GP upon westernizing, due to their low literacy and population.
 
I agree, they should begin with a higher westernization rate. Because Egypt manages to lose it's percentage by the rebels after the inevitable wars against the Ottomans and Ethiopia. Every single time.
 
I agree that egypt was at least on par at the start time of the game.
But I think it would be more approriate to make the Ottomans an unciv and let both nations start with a high percentage of westernisation.

have you played the ottomans? They are pretty much just out of unciv and way behind the other great powers for tech. Egypt's main issue is that the Ottomans want thier cores back bad. They NEED those core provinces back BAD. Now that the great powers don't care about the canal anymore till late game, egypt has no friends.
 
Speaking of Egypt, is anyone else noticing how easily and frequently Ethiopia is beating them now?

Yes. Yes I am.

And I concur with the OP. Egypt was actually industrializing in the 1860s - as was India - until the British moved to dismantle the competition to their textile industry. Egypt should go like Japan, but also include an event chain for the UK to get involved and keep 'em down.
 
I think it would make sense if Egypt started westernized or at least close to westernized, with an event making them a puppet of their sphere-master (in case of bankruptcy?) and leading to annexation, as happened historically.
 
Speaking of Egypt, is anyone else noticing how easily and frequently Ethiopia is beating them now?

This is usually the case after their first loss against the Ottomans. They never really get that powerful again in terms of an army.