Is Ostend Manifesto decision worth it?

mustachewarfare

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• Jun 19, 2013

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• #1

I am just wondering if any body uses Ostend Manifesto decision. Yeah you gain core to Cuba and you gain infamy that is lower than what you would gain as maximum infamy from "Place in the sun" CB but your relationship with all other Great Power drops by 150. Also it is the maximum infamy that is higher than the infamy from Ostend Manifesto so it may be possible that the difference in infamy gain would be smaller.

Wouldn't it be better (under the assumption that USA wants Cuba) to just use "Place in the sun" Justify War option? Or is there some other benefit from this decision that I am not aware of?

 

A

AlexMarcherLord

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• Jun 19, 2013

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• #2

Free cores are never a bad thing. Plus, the only GPs you need to keep happy are the UK, France (Statue of Liberty) and Russia (Alaska Purchase) and it's not hard to work your way back into their good books.

 

pkderek

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• Jun 19, 2013

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• #3

I've never gone late game but do you really need to keep the UK happy? We all know the woes of AI naval invasions and their Canadian garrisons are easily toppled. I've never been blockaded in a war either.

EDIT: Maybe I'm just a noob but I don't see a point to getting a couple otherwise useless provinces for a lot of downside. Is Tobacco really worth it?

 

Kimberly

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• Jun 19, 2013

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• #4

You need to keep the UK happy because the UK hates making peace. They'll stay at war for years, even if you have all of Canada occupied, which will be a big strain on your budget and economy.

 

mustachewarfare

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• Jun 19, 2013

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• #5

AlexMarcherLord said:

Free cores are never a bad thing. Plus, the only GPs you need to keep happy are the UK, France (Statue of Liberty) and Russia (Alaska Purchase) and it's not hard to work your way back into their good books.

Click to expand...

wow first time i found out there is statue of liberty event. How do you get it and what does it offer?

 

brycef

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• Jun 19, 2013

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• #6

Playing US I always select it. By the time it comes around you are either about to or have just fought your Mexican war, and unless you are trying to woo a European power into an alliance for foreign adventures, there's no real downside to doing it. You really can't exercise it by grabbing Cuba though since Spain is usually sphered by another great power or a great power by then, but it gives you a free no infamy state in the later game when you are strong enough to grab it. The relations hit you can overcome later through expending diplo points if you want, or just wait and the relations will rise naturally on their own eventually.

 

PeterPan1977

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• Jun 19, 2013

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• #7

pkderek said:

I've never gone late game but do you really need to keep the UK happy? We all know the woes of AI naval invasions and their Canadian garrisons are easily toppled. I've never been blockaded in a war either.

EDIT: Maybe I'm just a noob but I don't see a point to getting a couple otherwise useless provinces for a lot of downside. Is Tobacco really worth it?

Click to expand...

Cuba is quite useful. I got it sometimes around 1865 after ACW. It turned state fast. By end game, it has more than 1m pop. It also provides the same navy throughput amount as if it is a home port, even though can't build capital ship from its port. As to whether to get it by Ostend Manifest or just regular place under the sun cb, it is up to you.

Another colony I highly recommend is Caribbean Islands. It has a big ass sulphur mine.

 

mustachewarfare

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• Jun 19, 2013

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• #8

brycef said:

Playing US I always select it. By the time it comes around you are either about to or have just fought your Mexican war, and unless you are trying to woo a European power into an alliance for foreign adventures, there's no real downside to doing it. You really can't exercise it by grabbing Cuba though since Spain is usually sphered by another great power or a great power by then, but it gives you a free no infamy state in the later game when you are strong enough to grab it. The relations hit you can overcome later through expending diplo points if you want, or just wait and the relations will rise naturally on their own eventually.

Click to expand...

really? it says it gives infamy (like 4.0) according to the decision in the game.

 

marnues

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• Jun 19, 2013

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• #9

Taking infamy in the early game usually isn't so bad since you're focused on taking states from Mexico and improving the economy. Late game infamy is much more likely to be a factor. So even if you don't attack Spain right away, take the infamy hit to get the cores so you have a free CB for whenever you want it.

 

BBBD316

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• Jun 21, 2013

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• #10

I never used to take this, but I push to get this ASAP and hit Spain whilst it is still a GP, it normally is outisde the GP alliances and you can easily occupy and then fight off any Spainish attacks.

Free land should always bee taken especially when America has to maintain control over the entire Americas.

 

k-59

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• Jun 21, 2013

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• #11

It has two advantages over just justifying a war. One, it allows you to justify a CB on Puerto Rico instead allowing you to take both in one war with a minimum of infamy. Two you get cores on Cuba not just a CB. And really who cares what the other GPs think of you?

 

Nick Giordano

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• Jun 21, 2013

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• #12

k-59 said:

And really who cares what the other GPs think of you?

Click to expand...

I kinda want to win a noble peace prize. :laugh:

 

Director

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• Jun 23, 2013

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• #13

I find that Cuba usually revolts away from Spain, sooner or later. I've been able to conquer it while playing as Haiti so the US should have no trouble.

 

General_Smith

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• Jun 23, 2013

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• #14

If you're concerned about the hit to relations, I wouldn't worry about it at all. I always take the decision and end up with a GP ally within a couple of years anyways.

 

Beagá

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• Jun 23, 2013

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• #15

Cuba resources are bad, but it´s nice for roleplaying purposes.

What you SHOULD take from Spain is Fernando Po, which is a nice place to start colonizing Africa. You need tropical wood and rubber. So, use Place in the Sun CB to grab it, then add Cuba as wargoal.

 

Lwantssugar

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• Jun 23, 2013

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• #16

Or if you have infamy to spare take all of their colonial possessions, the Philippines are nice to have

 

EU3NOOB

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• Jun 23, 2013

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• #17

Lwantssugar said:

Or if you have infamy to spare take all of their colonial possessions, the Philippines are nice to have

Click to expand...

Yeah, definitely on the Philippines! It's a very nice launch pad for taking SEAsia and launching attacks against Austrialia and even India(though that's stretching it a bit). I was planning on this in my USA AHD game before Confederate and Anarcho-Liberal Rebels well and truly raped me. Over 2/3 of the country was taken over by rebels! Then of course France declared war over California...:blink:

Needless to say I gave up on that game!

 

Beagá

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• Jun 23, 2013

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• #18

I´d rather go for something on China however. Taiwan/Formosa is not tough to get and gives lots of tea. Or, naturally, Java, as US is a bit poor on both coffee and sulphur.

 

PeterPan1977

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• Jun 24, 2013

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• #19

Beagá said:

Cuba resources are bad, but it´s nice for roleplaying purposes.

What you SHOULD take from Spain is Fernando Po, which is a nice place to start colonizing Africa. You need tropical wood and rubber. So, use Place in the Sun CB to grab it, then add Cuba as wargoal.

Click to expand...

But Cuba does have sizable pop, which is the most important resources.