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BRZ 1891: what now?

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Victoria 2 17560 After Action Reports (AAR)
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Chaim Kaufmann

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May 21, 2001
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My first game, going very well. #3/#6/#7. Leader in the 1880+ goods. All SA sphered plus Japan, Korea, and all SE Asia.

Only (known) problem is that I did not get naval base techs until recently and now the whole coast of Africa except Namibia is owned, mostly by FRA. HOL has Congo.

After dreadnoughts can likely compete at sea, but what to aim for?
-FRA offers alliance but I think I prefer ENG.
-Do I want ENG/FRA at war?
-If yes, do I want to join, or play while they're busy? Also, are there war goals that allow taking larger swathes in Africa than was allowed when munching BOL and CHL?
 
Fra vs. Eng depends on what you want to do, and who you think will be in your way.

If you are having problems with Germany or Russia, then yea you probably want France over the UK. The AI is still pretty iffy on naval invasions, which is the main way that the UK attacks now. That being said, they have a massive navy and can provide naval support while you specialize in landing your military. Fighting distant wars will always be tough.

There aren't any large African colonization wargoals that I know of, but you can take chunks of it using the Place in the sun CB.

Tell us more about the European situation, and what YOU want to do. (Do you want to be the military power of the world? The industrial behemoth, and controller of the global economy? Promote stability in Asia?) And we can provide advice.
 
delimeat567 said:
Fra vs. Eng depends on what you want to do, and who you think will be in your way.

If you are having problems with Germany or Russia, then yea you probably want France over the UK. The AI is still pretty iffy on naval invasions, which is the main way that the UK attacks now. That being said, they have a massive navy and can provide naval support while you specialize in landing your military. Fighting distant wars will always be tough.

There aren't any large African colonization wargoals that I know of, but you can take chunks of it using the Place in the sun CB.

Tell us more about the European situation, and what YOU want to do. (Do you want to be the military power of the world? The industrial behemoth, and controller of the global economy? Promote stability in Asia?) And we can provide advice.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

FRA #1: 1202/1897/533. ENG #2: 1166/1416/483. FRA has all of West and Central Africa that no one else started with (except Congo: HOL, which has ENG, FRA, BEL all friendly), plus Suez. Going after Kutch now. ENG has almost all the rest of India.

GER unified. RUS could go after KOR, JAP, but they have not yet. Don't know how to look up who is allied to whom.

I have 57% literacy, best industry and culture tech, probably fastest research. 708 ind, growing faster than anyone else. But they will get autos/aeros. Also relative promotion/demotion between farmer and craft may become an issue as craft share of total pop increases (20% now).

Also, I *am* allied to ENG. Forgot!

Goal is simply highest rank attainable:
-Fastest econ growth;
-Culture prestige (though less valuable in relative terms than earlier);
-Spam dreadnoughts when available.

Q: Is there a point to taking African stuff from FRA or HOL? Or to any military action at all?
 
The dutch colonies in SE Asia are always worth taking, since they contain high numbers of pops and nice resources.
If Sokotho is still there, it is also up for grabs.
If you must go to war over Africa, then target those coal and wood producing provinces. Those are really valuable. If you want to destroy the other GPs economy, go for the rubber producing provinces and make a rubber monopoly :)
 
The area where Sokoto used to be is extremely valuable, so if you want to war in Africa that is where you can do it.

As far as SEAsia, I'd go after the island of Java, to get it form the Dutch. Lots of people, easy to defend.

As Brazil, you have to have a strong navy, at least IMO. The action is going to be in Europe and you need to be able to guarantee that you will not lose your troops during transport. If you want to get the highest rank possible, I recommend you knock Germany down a notch or two. For that, you're going to want France and/or Russia as your ally. Then try to extend the German lines as much as possible.

The UK will fall if you can get India occupied and force them to retreat. A base in Java would really help here. As would a Russian ally. Sphere any nations between Russia and British India and call those sphered nations into the war. Russia will march across them and into India with their hordes.

Also, get your literacy up more. Clergymen to 4% on your top 3 provinces should help, use National Focus' to do it. Fully fund education in the budget screen. Education Funding determines educational effectiveness.
 
delimeat567 said:
The area where Sokoto used to be is extremely valuable, so if you want to war in Africa that is where you can do it. As far as SEAsia, I'd go after the island of Java, to get it form the Dutch. Lots of people, easy to defend.
Click to expand...

PP mentioned these also. Sokoto exists but is walled off by FRA on coast. BEL (#8) has Java.

As Brazil, you have to have a strong navy, at least IMO.
Click to expand...

Yes, although if I wait till 1900 I'll have a tech edge.

The action is going to be in Europe and you need to be able to guarantee that you will not lose your troops during transport. If you want to get the highest rank possible, I recommend you knock Germany down a notch or two. For that, you're going to want France and/or Russia as your ally. Then try to extend the German lines as much as possible. ....

Also, get your literacy up more. Clergymen to 4% on your top 3 provinces should help, use National Focus' to do it. ....
Click to expand...

Interesting. Got to 2.4%, but switched to craftsmen and clergy have slid down to 2.1%. Maybe I should switch back.

Based on your comments and the PP, sounds like top two choices should be Java and Africa. With SE Asia sphered already, I'd have all the rubber except ENG's in Sudan and a couple of places in Malaya. (Recall I am allied to ENG.)

ENG 2M troops, 750 ships, mostly obsolete. Allies,: AH, me.
FRA 600k (maxed), mostly in Algeria, Egypt (long walk). 300 ships. Allies: AH.
GER 60k troops (nearly maxed: lots of wars?), 300 ships. No important allies.
BEL 170k troops (nearly maxed), small navy. Allies: RUS (damn!), POR, SIC.

All have better Army tech than me but I am teching faster. All just starting to build cruisers. My troop limit 300k, rising pretty fast.

Qs:
-How can I get a CB? 'Place in the Sun' seems to require a colony. Easter Island is available but that's cheesy.
-If I am allied to ENG or GER, won't they take over peace negotiations? (GER outranks me in total score but not in prestige if that matters.)
-If I get most of the rubber, how do I keep it away from others--try to to consume it all?
 
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For warleader: yes they will take over if their overall score is higher than yours I believe, or maybe just if their millitary score is higher, but generally a higher ranked nation will always take over.
For rubber: yes if you directly control (your land) the vast majority of it and consume it through industry the others will get virtually none and be stalled in production. If you simply sphere the rubber then a little more will prob get out.
For CB's: you have to fabricate them through the diplomacy tab. There are also events to get random CB's for colonies, I'm not 100% sure what triggers them as I get them with both nations I have high and low relations with.
 
Jorlaan said:
For warleader: yes they will take over if their overall score is higher than yours I believe, or maybe just if their millitary score is higher, but generally a higher ranked nation will always take over.
Click to expand...

So I won't get any territory out of it? Or worth it anyway if their army and fleet are largely destroyed, then try again later?

It's now 1901. Rankings and forces;

BRZ #4 Army 75/366. Navy 22 cruisers, 22 transports. Dreadnoughts on order but not getting enough telephones despite that I have most of world production. Could build >25/year if that solved.

FRA #1 Army 880/880. Navy 115 cruisers, 88 ironclads, 19 transports.
ENG #2 (my ally). Army 2550/2550. Navy 32 cruisers, 813 others mostly men o' war.

GER #5 (trying to ally, two fails so far). Army 88/???. Navy 181 cruisers, 223 others.

at war with

AUS #6 (FRA ally). Army 256/???. Navy 55 cruisers, 227 others.

Qs:
-What can I expect re ENG (or GER if allied) answering call?
-If no joy, how good is a dreadnought. Will 50 do?


For rubber: yes if you directly control (your land) the vast majority of it and consume it through industry the others will get virtually none and be stalled in production. If you simply sphere the rubber then a little more will prob get out.
For CB's: you have to fabricate them through the diplomacy tab. There are also events to get random CB's for colonies, I'm not 100% sure what triggers them as I get them with both nations I have high and low relations with.
Click to expand...

Good-oh.
 
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Starting to look easier

1/1/1902. 16 dreadnoughts, will have > 60 by next year. Passed GER industry. Now think #1 possible without a war, but would like to try one. FRA has most of its troops in Africa, mainly North Africa. Should I try to take advantages of their very long walks within Africa, or go to France and try to prevent them bring any troops back?
 
Once you reach 50% literacy you should start using clerk NF too. I usually don´t bother much with 4% clergymen as I always rush Darwinism when I have a low LIT country. With early darwinism + education social reforms you don´t need 4% clergymen. It´s a waste of POP.
 
delimeat567 said:
Fra vs. Eng depends on what you want to do, and who you think will be in your way.

If you are having problems with Germany or Russia, then yea you probably want France over the UK. The AI is still pretty iffy on naval invasions, which is the main way that the UK attacks now.
Click to expand...

I haven't found this to be the case. In every game I've played since AI naval invasions were improved, the first war between France and the UK (which always comes, since the new alliance system basically guarantees an unstoppable UK+Germany alliance) always entails the UK swarming France top-down, completely destroying their armies, and they never seem to recover. I think the mobilisation-over-time contributes as well, but either way they're about as competent as Italy now.
 
Doesn´t happen always, however. Piece meal UK invasions are destroyed by France 90% time, the problem is the NGF + UK combo.
 
Clerks are definetly important. I personally only NF clergymen to 2% per state, to give a head start and to get that 2% national average for RP's. By 1890-1900 I usually find myself NFing clerks in at least my 2-3 most populous, industrialized states.

Back to your question about war leaders again, whether yo get anything or not is a bit of a roll of the dice, but has also to do with how well you are doing VS how well the warleader is doing.

Example: You and Germany are allied in a war against say France and you start the war with your goal. Germany (unless the AI fails big time) is going to start racking up warscore like crazy and this will lead to them adding a wargoal most likely. Assuming they have enough warscore to make the French conceed to their (German) wargoal then they prob will and leave you high and dry. The only real way to keep the AI from peaceing you out of a war you're involved in together and only taking their wargoal, is to out-warscore them from the start and to make sure you capture the region you want to annex before they get too much score of their own.

This is the best (although not foolproof) way that i have found of making use of AI allies. Just have to out-score them quickly enough and take that land! The AI is WAAAAY more willing to give up land that is actually occupied as opposed to not.
 
Jorlaan said:
Clerks are definetly important. I personally only NF clergymen to 2% per state, to give a head start and to get that 2% national average for RP's. By 1890-1900 I usually find myself NFing clerks in at least my 2-3 most populous, industrialized states.
Click to expand...

Now late 1904. When lit ~67% I switched NFs to craftsmen. Now clerks ~15% of clerks+crafts countrywide. Do I still need to encourage them?

Related, from c. 1870-1902 I grew relatively faster than ENG, FRA, USA, GER, AUS (after 1890 usually absolutely faster). Since 1902 reversed. At first I thought because they are producing autos and aeros too, but trade screen says not much yet. What could explain this?

Back to your question about war leaders again, whether yo get anything or not is a bit of a roll of the dice, but has also to do with how well you are doing VS how well the warleader is doing.

Example: You and Germany are allied in a war against say France and you start the war with your goal. Germany (unless the AI fails big time) is going to start racking up warscore like crazy and this will lead to them adding a wargoal most likely. Assuming they have enough warscore to make the French conceed to their (German) wargoal then they prob will and leave you high and dry. The only real way to keep the AI from peaceing you out of a war you're involved in together and only taking their wargoal, is to out-warscore them from the start and to make sure you capture the region you want to annex before they get too much score of their own.

This is the best (although not foolproof) way that i have found of making use of AI allies. Just have to out-score them quickly enough and take that land! The AI is WAAAAY more willing to give up land that is actually occupied as opposed to not.
Click to expand...

Good to know. ENG dishonored, but if they had honored the quality of my army might have mattered--not ready to face large FRA forces (i.e., Africa) yet. So far all I've accomplished is 3 provinces in Caribbean, 5 brigades, c. 30 ships, + what I think is their main fleet blockaded in Cayenne. No WE and $32m so I have time.

Naval battles are incredibly indecisive. Has anyone tried something like doubling all ships' attack ratings?
 
Considering 4% is the golden number for optimal research yes, you should strive to have at least 2% of clearks (IF your economy can handle it).
 
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