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Switzerland creation is wrong in eu4

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Dear developpers,

As I have seen on some youtube footages, the Switzerland creation is not correct so far. In the 15th century, the western and southern parts of the current switzerland were in Savoy :
"(about western switzerland) As the power of the Savoys declined at the beginning of the 15th century the land was occupied by troops from Bern. By 1536 the area was completely annexed. " Wikipedia.

The same for southern switzerland (Valais), same source :

"At the outbreak of the Burgundian War in 1475 the bishop of Sion and the Zenden made a treaty with Bern. In November of the same year they seized all Lower or Savoyard Valais up to Martigny. In March 1476, after the victory of Grandson, they advanced and captured St Maurice, Evian, Thonon and Monthey. They had to give up the last three districts in 1477, but won them again in 1536. In the treaty of Thonon in 1569, Monthey, Val d'llliez and Bouveret were permanently annexed to the Valais. These conquered districts in the Lower Valais were always ruled as subject lands by the bishop and Zenden of the Upper Valais. On March 12, 1529, Valais became an associate member (Zugewandter Ort) of the Swiss Confederation"

As Swiss, I surely would like to play this game, but this is for now very far from reality.

The swiss map is also non conforming to reality, it would be good if you correct it a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valais
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaud

Regards
 
Indeed they should be missions/cores (to promote the AI Swiss from taking them) but should not be swiss from start.
 
The OP is right that Switzerland isn't 100% correct... but I have no doubt that this is one of thousands of abstractions that are required to represent 400 years of world history without making everyone's heads explode.

Nice map of Swiss confederation here but: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Old_Swiss_Confederation.jpg

In the end, if the representation of your hometown really bugs you, you can always mod it.
 
Lord Canterbury said:
The OP is right that Switzerland isn't 100% correct... but I have no doubt that this is one of thousands of abstractions that are required to represent 400 years of world history without making everyone's heads explode.

Nice map of Swiss confederation here but: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Old_Swiss_Confederation.jpg

In the end, if the representation of your hometown really bugs you, you can always mod it.
Click to expand...

I am not a developper nor even a modder, but i guess that if we all want to play historical game, we also want something right from the beginning. Provinces and regions should be right at day one of the game. As it is now, western switzerland is wrong. I presume it is not a big deal to put Vaud and Valais as part of Savoy until around 1500 and let them join (or not) the swiss confederates later on, based on a script or on any game rule that I don't know (actually it should be some kind of swiss invasion or "protection").

Actually, if western swiss people are not french, it is also probably due to this... i guess that what we like in these games is to mod the history (not the game), based on the reality. I heard the lead developper telling that the game could be used in the schools, but not here at least, for now :)

Dear developpers, think about this small change...
 
In EU3 the provinces in question are Fribourg and Wallis. Both also being Rheinlaender culture, which doesn't fit either. Switzerland having ahistorical borders should be fixed, I think.
 
Simple fact is that if Switzerland really shouldn't matter and might at well have its 2013 borders in 1444 like it does in EU3 and appears to in current builds of EUIV, why not just give Calais and Normandy to France in 1444, they don't really matter and it simplifies things. Should Germany just start with Austria in 1936 in Hearts of Iron?

There's no argument because you can't logically defend inconsistency.

Having a single Switzerland tag and not representing it as multiple allied groups is an abstraction for gameplay purposes (as is its northern equivalent the Hansa tag). Giving it the wrong borders actually limits the fun in playing Switzerland as much as giving France its modern borders would take away the fun of expanding as France and it hurts the gameplay experiance of the many states surrounding Switzerland who should have the unpredictable half bandit half republican sword of Damocles hanging over them. Its also a lie that pretends Switzerland had no history and just emerged from the mountains fully clothed as the neutral never changing liver of Europe rather than the violent expansionist power that quieted down a bit once it had enough land.
 
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Switzerland has way too many provinces. I believe Bern is the province that borders the most provinces in the game by a large margin, 10+ or something.

One province should become Ticino, so that Switzerland takes its from Milan. For a historical borders compromise the Valtellina should go to Milan from game start.

And yeah it sucks that for at least 100 years in the timeframe the Swabians Swiss were very warlike without any game reprsentation whatsoever. In the game sometimes they expand in Baden-Wurterberg (historically sound so no problem), but not without Austria snaking into them.

Also Switzerland doesn't have any real mining history to speak of, the iron province/s are unwarranted. If anything there should be wool everywhere, except of cloth in places like Zurich and the ingame area of Scwyz, and wine in the areas they get from Savoy.

Obviously the devs can't accommodate everything but the purpose of humanity is to become better, and unless we bring up those things an help them EU will turn into a dog.
 
To wrap up upon this, I would recommand this to the developpers :
- Start in the 15th century with the "Swiss confederates" without the western/southern part, which should start within Savoy (french speaking to simplify although they had a specific language -francoprovencal- that makes that even today, there is a continuity between west swiss, north italy and current Savoie)
- This w-s part should be named "Vaud" and "Valais"
- "Fribourg" was a city-state that joined the swiss confederates in 1481, but for the game purpose, lets remove it (it was very small), and replace by "Vaud" -> I am from Fribourg and would not complain about this ;)
- "Ticino" (italian speaking) is quite important and missing, so should be added south of Schwyz who conquired them between 1440 and 1512, and to avoid too many regions, St-Gallen removed
- If a player wants to play Switzerland, it can be interesting for him to stick to history and annex Vaud-Valais that should not resist so much, and as said above, should be quite military-oriented at the beginning
- The shape of the total provinces that correspond with current switzerland could be improved (south of lake geneva is no swiss today)

Regarding Wikipedia, what they say is correct. But for those who want more / better reference I have a 300 pages book that depaints very well this part of history (in french) with lots of other references ;)

Is there any chance that the developpers take this remarks in account, at least bold parts?
 
Seb283 said:
To wrap up upon this, I would recommand this to the developpers :
- Start in the 15th century with the "Swiss confederates" without the western/southern part, which should start within Savoy (french speaking to simplify although they had a specific language -francoprovencal- that makes that even today, there is a continuity between west swiss, north italy and current Savoie)
- This w-s part should be named "Vaud" and "Valais"
- "Fribourg" was a city-state that joined the swiss confederates in 1481, but for the game purpose, lets remove it (it was very small), and replace by "Vaud" -> I am from Fribourg and would not complain about this ;)
- "Ticino" (italian speaking) is quite important and missing, so should be added south of Schwyz who conquired them between 1440 and 1512, and to avoid too many regions, St-Gallen removed
- If a player wants to play Switzerland, it can be interesting for him to stick to history and annex Vaud-Valais that should not resist so much, and as said above, should be quite military-oriented at the beginning
- The shape of the total provinces that correspond with current switzerland could be improved (south of lake geneva is no swiss today)

Regarding Wikipedia, what they say is correct. But for those who want more / better reference I have a 300 pages book that depaints very well this part of history (in french) with lots of other references ;)

Is there any chance that the developpers take this remarks in account, at least bold parts?
Click to expand...

Ahistorical missions could be fun as well - Switzerland tried to annex vast parts of Northern Italy during the Italian Wars, for example. A Swiss Federation sprawling over Switzerland, Savoie, Piedmont and Lombardy (more or less what they aimed to, a bit pointed up) would be cool to see.
 
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