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[video=youtube;qjBRNqwDPrU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjBRNqwDPrU[/video]

Truly impressive. I'll ask you a few questions after I finish reading the guide.

^^ This.

I usually hate walls of text - even when I write them :) - but this is was a hugely helpful. Sure, some of the ideas are a bit gamey, but no one has to use them and for someone that's just starting the game, there's a lot of good tips here that will help newbies like me.
 
It does affect your vassals indirectly because it lowers your Diplomacy by 5 and costs a lot of prestige, both of which lower your vassal's opinion of you.

Also I was under the impression that you COULDN'T break a truce anymore if your prestige was too low but perhaps I am mistaken.

This. Unfortunately, this kind of playthrough is now a lot less possible since it's a lot more difficult to Holy Cheese a WC. :)
 
^^ This.

I usually hate walls of text - even when I write them :) - but this is was a hugely helpful. Sure, some of the ideas are a bit gamey, but no one has to use them and for someone that's just starting the game, there's a lot of good tips here that will help newbies like me.

For those who hate to read Walls of Text, I can advice a few titles from the guide. Most helpful (and cheesy) imo:
SNATCHING
PLOTTING-ASSASSINATING
IMPRISONMENT
CONQUERING BY WAY OF INHERITANCE
TITLES

For example, one might ask, "How do you expand from a simple County or Duchy".
I might answer "Firstly by inviting all those you can invite simply, then by snatching a 30 intrigue spymaster and putting him to discover schemes and snatching any wealthy person out there and catch them plotting.."
This way, you can get lots of gold very fast.
 
This. Unfortunately, this kind of playthrough is now a lot less possible since it's a lot more difficult to Holy Cheese a WC. :)

And I was thinking "what the heck is a diplomacy penalty"

Patch notes 1.092
- The Prestige cost for breaking a truce is now much harsher; 50% of current Prestige + 200.
- You now get a -5 Diplo penalty for five years if you break a truce

I played 1.091 ..

Anyway, -5 Penalty is nothing if it doesn't stack. (Does it? If it does, I'll most likely have 0 diplomacy, which means I would lose a 30 bonus on opinions.. But the heck, I lost -35 when I went heretic too :} )
Also %50 of Current Prestige is too harsh, but it means you can wage 2 wars and break 1 truce.
As I plan to conquer most of Europe by "Conquering by way of Inheritance" and conquer most of Muslim nations by war, I would have at least 2 times the wars against 1 truce breaking :}
It will also zero the prestige bonus on opinions.. But as long as you conquer fast and distribute the lands to your Vassals, you won't care about opinions too..

Shortly, it would not matter much except zeroing my Prestige Score (and hence lowering my game score).
But that's till the conquest is over.. After that, I might just pass time and have lots of Prestige+Score..
 
Well, 3 broken truces means that you have less than 12,5% of starting prestige and get -15 Diplomacy, means that you will never have +20 opinion (prestige) and by conquering other cultures and religions you will quickly by asassinated (low prestige, low Diplomacy, diffferent culture and religon = hate).
 
Shortly, it would not matter much except zeroing my Prestige Score (and hence lowering my game score).
But that's till the conquest is over.. After that, I might just pass time and have lots of Prestige+Score..

This is not true. It costs half your current prestige, plus 200 prestige, to break a truce. So if you have less than 400 prestige, you are prohibited from truce-breaking - because the cost is more than how much prestige you have on hand. Winning a holy war is worth 50 prestige; sacking holdings is worth a little prestige, but not much if they're holdings which only have 30-40 garrison units defending because you just sacked them last week. So you'll be losing prestige with every treaty-breaking holy war, and if you drop below 400 you have to wait. E.g., if you started with 4000 prestige, you'd be able to break a treaty 4 or maybe 5 times in a row. If you started with 8000 prestige, you could break it 5 or maybe 6. 16k, 6 or maybe 7 times.

There are many ways to generate prestige, of course. Your vassals should be giving you a steady trickle, potentially up to 50-60 per month when you control most of the map. You could win wars against other people, generating prestige. If you're feeling exceptionally gamey, you could abuse the Jerusalem exploit to convert small amounts of cash into massive amounts of prestige. And so forth.

But it does, at times, provide a real limit now.
 
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Well, 3 broken truces means that you have less than 12,5% of starting prestige and get -15 Diplomacy, means that you will never have +20 opinion (prestige) and by conquering other cultures and religions you will quickly by asassinated (low prestige, low Diplomacy, diffferent culture and religon = hate).

Well, %50 Prestige is too harsh.. It should've been a fixed number instead.

If I have 400 Prestige, I'd lose 400 when i break a Truce. But when I have 40k, I'd lose 20.2 k for breaking a Truce?
That's a bit over-reacting on the side of Paradox to fix a Holy Cheese imo.

And you couldn't start a war with negative prestige?

So there weren't Machiavellian Rulers in Medieval Times, who broke their truces time and time again?

Anyway..
If Paradox wants decent rulers all around, I'd have to improvise..
Such as putting my Spymaster on the enemy's capital city and assassinating their ruler each time I win a war.
(Snatching the victim's spymaster + Building Spy Network would practically give you high chances of assassination).
It would be expensive as hell, but the gold flows through easy sieging too.. So I'd have to siege ~15 cities to raise a 350g assassination gold..

Damned..

Another workaround might be fighting long wars against lots of enemies at once..
Maybe not assault-sieging 2 counties with 15k armies each but normal sieging with 15 counties with 2k armies each..

I'd have to try and see :}
 
Well, %50 Prestige is too harsh.. It should've been a fixed number instead.
If I have 400 Prestige, I'd lose 400 when i break a Truce. But when I have 40k, I'd lose 20.2 k for breaking a Truce?
That's a bit over-reacting on the side of Paradox to fix a Holy Cheese imo.
And you couldn't start a war with negative prestige?
So there weren't Machiavellian Rulers in Medieval Times, who broke their truces time and time again?
This is a very good idea because it allows smaller realms to survive longer. You did WC but when somebody prefers roleplay this is a good change. Besides, human will always find a way - this is mainly for the AI. And they were, of course, but they didn't do this every month for years.
 
This is not true. It costs half your current prestige, plus 200 prestige, to break a truce. So if you have less than 400 prestige, you are prohibited from truce-breaking - because the cost is more than how much prestige you have on hand. Winning a holy war is worth 50 prestige; sacking holdings is worth a little prestige, but not much if they're holdings which only have 30-40 garrison units defending because you just sacked them last week. So you'll be losing prestige with every treaty-breaking holy war, and if you drop below 400 you have to wait. E.g., if you started with 4000 prestige, you'd be able to break a treaty 4 or maybe 5 times in a row. If you started with 8000 prestige, you could break it 5 or maybe 6. 16k, 6 or maybe 7 times.

There are many ways to generate prestige, of course. Your vassals should be giving you a steady trickle, potentially up to 50-60 per month when you control most of the map. You could win wars against other people, generating prestige. If you're feeling exceptionally gamey, you could abuse the Jerusalem exploit to convert small amounts of cash into massive amounts of prestige. And so forth.

But it does, at times, provide a real limit now.

Jerusalem Exploit? What? You destroy the Kingdom of J. and re-create it for 5k Prestige? Cheesy!!!
(and I am the one making this exclamation.. But I wouldn't use that really :})

Winning a holy war is 50 prestige? Wasn't it 100?

Also as far as I remember, you don't get prestige for sieging.. Only for wars.
Bad for me..

Anyway, it wouldn't be feasible to accumulate more than 410 prestige if I planned to break truces..
Which means, I'd collect 400 and break a truce and so on.. Getting rid of the ruler seems a better alternative..
 
Jerusalem Exploit? What? You destroy the Kingdom of J. and re-create it for 5k Prestige? Cheesy!!!
(and I am the one making this exclamation.. But I wouldn't use that really :})

Winning a holy war is 50 prestige? Wasn't it 100?

Also as far as I remember, you don't get prestige for sieging.. Only for wars.
Bad for me..

Anyway, it wouldn't be feasible to accumulate more than 410 prestige if I planned to break truces..
Which means, I'd collect 400 and break a truce and so on.. Getting rid of the ruler seems a better alternative..

Absolutely - the Jerusalem exploit is by far and away the most broken exploit/cheat/bug in this game I know of without actually pulling down the console. 5k prestige, 2k piety, and it costs what, 400 gold? I used it once, just to see it work, and never touched it again. But if you were making a serious shot at world-conquest in 40 years starting as a Duke, I think you'd have to put all exploits on the table. It'd be like those old Quake speedruns - happy to abuse any and every glitch in the game that let them shave a second off their time, even glitches that let them skip whole levels.

Holy wars are 100 piety and 50 prestige I believe. You get a little prestige for sieges, based on how many enemy troops were garrisoned there - I think it's 0.01 prestige per soldier. So sieging out a 100-man garrison would be 1 prestige. I'm not 100% sure of that 0.01 figure though, nor am I certain there isn't any base prestige just for taking the holding.
 
Absolutely - the Jerusalem exploit is by far and away the most broken exploit/cheat/bug in this game I know of without actually pulling down the console. 5k prestige, 2k piety, and it costs what, 400 gold? I used it once, just to see it work, and never touched it again. But if you were making a serious shot at world-conquest in 40 years starting as a Duke, I think you'd have to put all exploits on the table. It'd be like those old Quake speedruns - happy to abuse any and every glitch in the game that let them shave a second off their time, even glitches that let them skip whole levels.

Holy wars are 100 piety and 50 prestige I believe. You get a little prestige for sieges, based on how many enemy troops were garrisoned there - I think it's 0.01 prestige per soldier. So sieging out a 100-man garrison would be 1 prestige. I'm not 100% sure of that 0.01 figure though, nor am I certain there isn't any base prestige just for taking the holding.

Well, I'd advice reading the Tips & Tricks I've posted.
Most of them might be known around, but I am not sure if all are known.

For a 1.091, I wouldn't care about Jerusalem Exploit, because I never needed Piety/Prestige, because due to constant wars against Muslims, they became excessively high in a very short time.
But seems for 1.092, it would be needed much.. But yet again, I might refrain from using it.

As long as Heir Snatching works, a Basque Ruler to usurp/create Kingdom of Navara and a Muslim and an Orthodox Guardian would solve most of my problems..
 
Absolutely - the Jerusalem exploit is by far and away the most broken exploit/cheat/bug in this game I know of without actually pulling down the console. 5k prestige, 2k piety, and it costs what, 400 gold? I used it once, just to see it work, and never touched it again. But if you were making a serious shot at world-conquest in 40 years starting as a Duke, I think you'd have to put all exploits on the table. It'd be like those old Quake speedruns - happy to abuse any and every glitch in the game that let them shave a second off their time, even glitches that let them skip whole levels.

Holy wars are 100 piety and 50 prestige I believe. You get a little prestige for sieges, based on how many enemy troops were garrisoned there - I think it's 0.01 prestige per soldier. So sieging out a 100-man garrison would be 1 prestige. I'm not 100% sure of that 0.01 figure though, nor am I certain there isn't any base prestige just for taking the holding.

Ok, I did a bit testing and here's the result:

Prestige_De_Jure_Wars.jpg


Even De-jure wars for a Barony grants 50 Prestige.
 
Very good job, congrats and thanx. I presume the game difficulty was set on very hard.

About factions - I wouldn't say though that never ending war with independence faction is a good solution, in particular at early stages of the game. Your pool of levies gets depleted and your holdings are coveted by neighbours, who may easily declare wars and conquer your vassals.

Your advice is to imprison and ransom every plotter who can pay their ransom. Hmm...ostensibly you spent quite a time fighting your vassals one by one.
 
Very good job, congrats and thanx. I presume the game difficulty was set on very hard.

About factions - I wouldn't say though that never ending war with independence faction is a good solution, in particular at early stages of the game. Your pool of levies gets depleted and your holdings are coveted by neighbours, who may easily declare wars and conquer your vassals.

Your advice is to imprison and ransom every plotter who can pay their ransom. Hmm...ostensibly you spent quite a time fighting your vassals one by one.

That advice is just one solution for independence faction and supposed to work like this:
Suppose you have 10 Counties and 4 Counties want independence. You don't accept and a war starts.
You note the leader of the Independence, which is Count A.
You conquer all the rest 3 and either let them go or put them into prison, but don't end the war with Count A.
The war just stays there indefinitely. As it's a war with 1 Count, it won't matter in later stages, where you'll have hundreds of Counts maybe..

What I realized and tried to abuse was, as long as there's an Independence war going on, an Independence Faction doesn't form..

Anyway, this is just a theory, but I guess it'll work.
For my own game, I never ever had any factions after the first 50 years. Not even one, because all my Dukes were 100+..
That's an easier solution :}


Also about imprisonment,
Best is, getting all non-ruler wealthy people to your Court and imprison-banishing them. You won't believe how much gold some ordinary people have.. (Mostly left-overs of a Kingdom/Empire Dynasty or Patricians :} )
Also about your Vassals, it's no problem, because tactics is already detailed there.. If you don't want rebellion, snatch their spymasters, raise their levies and imprison them afterwards.
If they do rebel, (which is 15% of the time) just siege them and get their siege gold too..
 
A bit more testing and I can confirm that each war gives +50 Prestige. Holy wars also give +100 Piety as a bonus (as you all know).

Prestige_De_Jure_Wars_2.jpg


So it's 8 Wars / Break 1 Truce..
Bah.. Guess I will have to turn Muslim after conquering most of Europe..
 
You could also just release vassal cities/baronies/churches and then go to war for them again. Especially after starting holy wars, in which you can give away the province but can keep all titles lower.

Erm.. I actually did that for getting free siege gold when my armies (retinue) were still marching.. :}
I used their own levies to siege themselves :p

But mostly there were sufficient enemies to siege...
 
OK, I wouldn't write this (for it would be fixed fast), but anyway..

Another cheesy method of gold-making is: (don't know if this is discussed or disclosed before)

You can own a few Cities in large Duchies and grant these to Heretic/Muslim Courtiers (non-ruler) and grant them independence and start a Holy War against them and conquer them. After the first conquest, immediately grant these cities to different non-ruler Courtiers and grant independence-start Holy War again. You can get 25-30g from sieging a City and you can get 100-150g from sieging 5 cities (not to mention the prestige/piety gains). This method takes only 1-2 days after the first siege and you won’t get any Truce penalty since you would be changing the rulers each time. You can abuse this as much as the number of your Heretic/Muslim Courtiers.. (I had hundreds.. But didn't use this method much, because it was near the end when I discovered it and I needed no more gold :p )
 
Well, I'd advice reading the Tips & Tricks I've posted.
Most of them might be known around, but I am not sure if all are known.

I did read over your posts. You keep saying I should; I read it before I replied the first time. It's an excellent collection of tips/tricks. I'm just not convinced it would be enough. 40 years is a really short time-window.

If you really want my detailed take on it...
Marriage - pretty much the right advice.
Education - I disagree with your advice about not educating your heirs yourself. The AI makes so many stupid choice about what traits to give wards. You also seem to disagree with your advice, so I'm not sure why it's still in there. The #1 priority in education, to my mind, is always educating two people yourself. Heirs and spares get all the good rulership traits. Third sons you might choose to give things like Content, Slothful, Gluttonous... anything to make them less attractive choices for a succession crisis. Or, if your heir is good enough you're confident in the succession anyways, you could give the third son traits tailored towards hopefully filling a role on your council, or just generally good stewardship traits to make them a vassal.
Administration - I never knew you can create vassals by right-clicking holdings. Probably won't be using it (I'd rather invite nobles and look at their stats first), but glad to learn something new. Otherwise, your advice is perfect... if headache-inducing (lots of clicking, lots of micromanagement).
Assassination - Marrying courtiers just to get an assassin in is brilliant. And I'd never even considered it. I will definitely be using this. Otherwise, all good advice.
Pope - I note you don't mention banking invasion CBs. This is one of my preferred tricks for fast early expansion if I can do it - get 1k piety or more, queue up 2-3 invasion CBs while small, then knock them all off in order. If your ruler dies or the target ruler dies before you can finish that invasion CB it's wasted of course... but it can let you get invasions on multiple realms all only slightly larger than you.
Making Gold - Banishment can be an option at times as well - it's a hefty penalty to relations, so it's not something I would do until and unless I was ready to banish all my Count+ vassals. Then you invite new people to your court and hand out all those titles to new rulers. Late-game, I wouldn't do it - you'd have to banish a lot of claimants you were interested in too, and it would be a mess. But early-game... if you get a high starting intrigue, good starting spymaster, and good starting martial, you can imprison-banish your way through a duchy or two fairly readily.
CBs - again, I'm not convinced Holy War would be the best for a record attempt. You get a bunch of land, but you also get long delays before that land starts contributing tax and manpower; you also don't get new (wealthy) vassals you can imprison and ransom or banish. It's certainly a nice CB and has it's uses, but it's not always the best.
Demesne - "Late game, your capital's importance lies in its"... what? Otherwise, all agreed.
Technology - Legalism matters early. Military Organization matters late. If you're trying for a fast WC, nothing else matters at all. Move capital as necessary. Basically more emphasis on what you were already leaning towards.
Vassals - Agreed.
Building Army - you don't discuss which mercenaries to use. They are not all created equal; in fact, there can be significant differences in their strength from band to band. The Swiss Band is hands-down my favorite 9 games out of 10 - just 75 gold to raise, and they're a very strong unit mix. Also, the holy order upkeep exploit was patched a while ago. If you're in an offensive religious war, you pay holy order upkeep. Period. Doesn't matter if you're also in a defensive one.

Retinues - there's been a lot of talk on this forum about how to fill and use your retinue. You might want to browse some of those threads if you can find them; your advice unfortunately just isn't that reliable. Archers/light infantry cost 1 maintenance and eat 1 retinue cap; heavy infantry / pikes / light cavalry / horse archers are 2 maintenance and 2 retinue cap; heavy cavalry are 4 maintenance and 4 supply cap. What sort of retinue you want will vary depending on whether you're using them primarily to assault holdings or to fight other armies - if the former, you mostly care about their skirmish stats; if the latter, melee stats can also be important. The retinue subunits you describe... I can't match up with any actual ones that exist in the game.

Logistics - this is good advice. I've been mentally wondering if sometimes you might actually raise levies close to the front faster by handing out new county titles to large vassals far to your rear (e.g., make someone King of Norway, then hand them out one county in Sicily if your fighting is all against Africa). I don't know if this would work; haven't gotten around to trying it.

Attrition - your advice is good; you can be more specific about how the supply limit will change if you want to take the trouble to do some math, but I never bother to. 100 heavy cavalry, 400 LC does not really have the strength of 1200 men. They consume the retinue cap of 1200, but that's a very different thing than actually having the "strength" of 1200. Generally speaking, heavy cavalry are kings for efficient use of supply for the purpose of winning battles; horse archers are best for efficient use of supply for assaulting castle purposes. If you're Greek, just spam Cataphract retinues.

Conquering - cutting the connection between belligerents is a rather clever idea I hadn't considered. As has been discussed, 1.092 made truce-breaking a little harsher. Good tricks otherwise.

Conquering by inheritance - Agreed, strong options.

Combat - auto-balance is rarely the best choice. In particular - if you have one general who is significantly better than the alternatives, you should just group every unit under that one general and leave the other two flanks empty. The extra 30% flanking damage is almost entirely offset by the fact that you'll rout the middle flank much earlier in the fight. Also, you should never mix your retinue in with mercenaries and levies if it's strong enough to hold a flank by itself - it's biggest strength is that it is very specialized so combat tactics give it a huge boost, and you waste that if you mix them in with other units. Selecting the right general and terrain is a big topic, but there's a lot more to it than you discuss here. There's some good threads on the forum regarding this. I generally find myself now able to take on armies somewhat larger than I used to, and I'm much more accurate in judging how strong my army really is without just looking at the total number of troops.
Regarding assaults, the first rule of thumb: Be much more eager to assault castles and bishoprics than cities. Cities tend to have very strong skirmish-stage units, which means they're actually harder to take (at equal size garrisons). Pair that with the fact that they lose morale much faster to regular sieges, and it's pretty clear - castles need to die, cities you can often wait out. Second rule of thumb: at least an 8-to-1 numerical edge. They do 15x damage and take 0.6x damage, so if you outnumber them 5-to-1 you expect a draw (could go either way). If you get up to an 8-to-1 edge, you can pretty much count on winning, but may take serious casualties (not always a bad thing, if using mercenaries). 15-to-1 or better is nice if you can get it. If you can't manage 8-to-1, instead split your army 5 or 6 ways instead and simultaneously siege out a half-dozen counties.
Sieges tend not to be worth the gold cost of levies + mercenaries - they earn a little, but not enough most of the time. So I generally am happy to take peace. The exception is when using something like an Invasion CB - if you control a non de-jure holding in the title you're going for, you'll get it thrown in (e.g., suppose England owns Apulia, and you launch an invasion of England. If you accept a peace while Apulia is still under their control, you won't get it. But if you siege out each county in Apulia before accepting peace, Apulia gets thrown in).
Holding distribution - Good advice.

Laws - the other thing to note about Cognatic succession is that if you can manage to breed Attractive into your line, Attractive female rulers will get +30 relations with all their male vassals. This can be... quite significant. CA is complicated. Low is a must; Medium is almost a must (free infidel revocation has so many uses). If you're going to high, you should go all the way to Absolute; in this case, you're relying on the 75% minimum levy set by CA - it often leads to larger levies, but can also cause more fractious vassals due to the opinion penalty. Theocratic Dukes/Kings can help get around this drawback.
Tanistry is my personal choice for strongest succession law, but you have to be a Celtic culture to select it. Otherwise... Seniority has real benefits, as does Elective or Primo. I would have no confidence in picking any of those three as best for a WC game.

Titles - remember that just because you switch titles doesn't make the other title's laws not exist. If you have a High CA title and an Autonomous Vassals title, your High CA de jure vassals are going to be pissed at you even if your primary title is the Autonomous Vassals one.

Council - be sure to have the Marshal suppressing revolts in your capital, and "invite" your potential prison victims to a spot on your council long enough to make them show up in your capital before you imprison them. Early game, best place for a Chancellor is Rome. Mid-game and late-game... hopefully you vassalized the Pope so all those Catholic bishops are paying taxes indirectly to you.

Piety - another point. If for some reason you find yourself at least 10 above your demesne limit, you can buy an indulgence from the Pope for 25 gold. That gives you 25 piety, and +10 relations with the Pope for a few years (that +10 relations can stack, by the way). If you are at or below demesne limit, the scaled wealth cost means it isn't generally worth it. Incidentally, any time you find yourself 10 over demesne limit is also a good time to consider spamming the intrigue invitation decisions to fill up your court with high-trait people for marriages, education, and council positions.

Heretics - You shouldn't get the gold of a heretic within your realm from declaring war. You need to actually imprison + banish them to get their gold. Which can be a painful tyranny penalty sometimes; at least the imprison is no tyranny penalty if they're heretic.

Factions - I had never considered a never-ending 1-Count independence war. That's... somewhat hilarious.

Overall - a good set of tools to have available. Many of them are too much management, or just too cheap, so I tend to avoid them... but it's good to know them. I just don't think, starting as a 1-duchy Duke, you could get a 40-year WC this way. Maybe if you reloaded saves heavily to make sure you got good assassination events and your ruler died at a convenient time. But I'm willing to be proved wrong, if you're convinced otherwise and want to give it a shot.