But it seems like Slavic origins are an after-thought even on their page (and it doesn't even seem to bring up how it was "reinvigorated" as a controversy). I'm not deciphering any statements about some significant Slavic discovery in the genome. Maybe you're thinking of non-indicative trace amounts in later decendants from Russia?
But I don't even want Swedish/Danish/Norwegian and so forth to even exist by 1200-1250 unless through a splintering event. It's a ridiculous setup not justified by actual culture/language at all, instead via political boundaries. As though the Irish should have a unique culture for each Petty Kingdom. So no argument here, they should all just be "Norse" cultures up here and modernist patriotic sentiment can crawl back into the dark pit it came from
But russian page also says that it's not obvious which of the lines clearer. More =/= truer.Further genetic studies seem to indicate the existence of two major haplogroups among modern Rurikids: the descendants of Vladimir II Monomakh (Monomakhoviches) and some others are of N1c1 group (130 people or 68%), while the descendants of a junior prince from the branch of Oleg I of Chernigov (Olgoviches) and some others (total 45 peoples or 24%) are of R1a and R1b haplogroups typical for Slavic, Germanic and Celtic peoples.
And no butthurt I even read some theories about semitic origins of Rurik. They have as much evidence as norse theory. All documents about this age were written in much later period. And we have only copies of them written even later. So you can only guess about Rurik nationality or even his existence.
as opposed to
where Vodyanoi is God of lakes and rivers;
Rusalki, river nymphs;
Veles, the God of all confusing things like: afterlife, nature, big salty waters, agriculture... And most confusing things have other dieties then Veles, but there is noone for naval warfare, noone for sea fishing, no sea storms or sea winds... Nothing at all to testify for any significance of sea to Slavs.
And I am not thinking about christians.
Neither Ruric nor his Slavs were christians. If you are implying that in pagan world the matter of religion is less important then for christian - I must say that you wrong. Romans wiped celtic dieties out. Greek did the same for Parthians and Egyptians. Vanquisher always brings his gods to the vanquished. Not the other way around.
And syncretic elements actually ends at proto-european roots. Yes, both cultures have God of Thunder, but for Norse he is a main diety, while for Slavs he is one of the dieties. Perun was the "main God" for only a brief period during the reign of Knyaz Volodymyr.
No? Annales Bertiniani from 838 says that a certain people that called themselves the Rhos and were of Swedish origin came to Constantinople, and Basil I sent a letter to Ludwig II describing Scandinavians being in power in a "northern khaganate" found nearby the Khazar khaganate.
Last edited by Darkgamma; 01-02-2013 at 20:54.
 Both are quite present in Scandinavia to about such a degree.
And welcome to History. I guess you don't believe in 90% of historical figures, then. Also: Just repeating "They have just as good evidence!" doesn't actually make it so. Generally speaking you'd get more.. non-Russian academics agreeing with you if that were the case, I'd say.
Last edited by Nuril; 01-02-2013 at 21:17.
But if we make Rurik Russian... His sons and successor wouldn't have norse names... But in history they had names of norse origin... right?
They, the Macedonians didn't wipe out the Egyptian pantheon, just gave the Egyptians a different culture pharaoh (who promptly associated more with Egyptian culture afterwards)
Mímir also isn't a Sea God, he's the God of Knowledge and Wisdom. He just happens to have a Well of Wisdom, which doesn't really have much to do with the mortals.
You'll also notice how you're not talking about Romans or Greeks. Neither of which "Wiped out" local religion.
Edit: Ah, misread that as just the main deity in conjunction to you using "the Main God" right after. Dishonest wording. Also, the primary position in the Pantheon was perhaps Týr up until the Migration Period, where Odin took over as the more popular leading deity. Things can change.
Last edited by Nuril; 01-02-2013 at 21:06.
And brothers and himself too.
Sineus = Blue Mustache.
And his grandson would not forfeit the most essential feature of Norse warrior - Beard. Norse without a beard is a laughing stock, yet Knyaz Svyatoslav is described.
Normanist are the scientists who believe in the norse theory. Some of them was russians. Most of them. There were even soviet normanists despite of your so-loved "Stalinist propaganda".
And its just silly to accuse only russians as being nationalistic. I'm sure that Sweden has it's own "nationalistic sentiment" as well.
Guys, guys calm down! I think we can all agree on at least one thing: Rurik most certainly wasn't a Frank... right? We should find conclusions that we all can agree on, even if they are not all that accurate.
I think Paradox should follow the most mainstream theory, i.e., Rurik was a Varangian. The more interesting question would be what kind of religion he should have.
I'm also not saying Russians are incapable of not being reactionarily "Anti-Normanist". That's not the same as pretty much every single one who is.. is also from there.