Venice Reloaded - a 1453 Venice DW 5.2 AAR

unmerged(477166) · Mar 30, 2013

Just catching up with this AAR, and really enjoying it so far.
Between France, Bohemia and particularly the Ottomans you have your work cut out for you!

Are you building a German state from Munster to give yourself a late game boss?

Ricardo Rolo · Mar 30, 2013

Austria and the Ottomans together apparently are already not a threat to you ( as long as you have Bohemia to help and France distracted

). If France does not grab something out of the Turk cake ( I reckon this is unlikely, but a person can dream ), you have the Balkans as your playground.

BTW as we're talking of France, I'm sure that you understand that you are in collision course with them ( Avignon and Calais (?) are in hands of your allies/vassals and it is a matter of time before France makes a war to get them ... not mentioning that most likely your interests will clash in the Balkans ). Do you have any idea of how are you going to deal with that ?

PrawnStar · Mar 30, 2013

Dropped back into EU3 AARs for the first time in a couple of months.

Interesting stuff, nice House rules and it looks like a fun game

diegoami · Mar 31, 2013

Ostman said:
Just catching up with this AAR, and really enjoying it so far.
Between France, Bohemia and particularly the Ottomans you have your work cut out for you!

Are you building a German state from Munster to give yourself a late game boss?

Thank you! Actually, Münster has blobbed by itself, I just went back to the save files and wrote a chronicle about it. But I have always played as Venice.
Anyway, there are several countries who are far more threathening than Münster.

Ricardo Rolo said:
Austria and the Ottomans together apparently are already not a threat to you ( as long as you have Bohemia to help and France distracted ). If France does not grab something out of the Turk cake ( I reckon this is unlikely, but a person can dream ), you have the Balkans as your playground.

BTW as we're talking of France, I'm sure that you understand that you are in collision course with them ( Avignon and Calais (?) are in hands of your allies/vassals and it is a matter of time before France makes a war to get them ... not mentioning that most likely your interests will clash in the Balkans ). Do you have any idea of how are you going to deal with that ?

Well, it was a good accomplishment, but the Ottomans were at war with England as well, otherwise I don't think I could have pulled it off that easily. France seems to have actually good chances of beating the Turks.

And about France : I think Venice and Bohemia should be able to take down France. After all, the war between France and Bohemia has been a close affair. If not, I might live with losing Avignon, Calais or both.

PrawnStar said:
Dropped back into EU3 AARs for the first time in a couple of months.

Interesting stuff, nice House rules and it looks like a fun game

Thank you, welcome back and I hope you will enjoy it !

As a bonus, here is a map of Europe.

Current wars. Everybody seems to be ganging up on the Ottomans. Luckily for them, they are not at war with England any more.

Venice map and world map.

diegoami · Apr 1, 2013

1560-1564 : Chur, Segu, and some more expansion

In June 1560, the Ottoman Empire is on the ropes. Not only it does not have a navy, but they have fewer soldiers than the French.

After completing the fortress in Konan, the game gives me the mission to conquer Chur, on which we have a core until 1563. About time, but we have to give up our alliance with Switzerland.

But don't we have a problem ? Switzerland is in the empire, and therefore Bohemia would defend them.

... not if we are allied in a war though.

We declare war on Switzerland and the only other enemy we have to deal with is Genua, who regrettably is still too big to be vassalized. But luckily, both Switzerland and Genua are rich countries and will pay tribute.

By January 1562, the war is over. Chur is now Venetian. And we have milked several ducats from Switzerland and Genua.

Meanwhile, we notice that the Turks have built manufactories all over the place.

But the war is going bad for them.

Between the year 1562 and 1564, we fight two wars, against the Songhai and the Inca. The first war is the Reconquest of Segu, because of a mission which gives us a core on that province.

The war against the Inca, instead, is just an uneventful war for cash.

As a result, in December 1564, Venice has paid back all of her debts and has over 2k ducats in the treasury.

Several African provinces have cored, including Trarza, which makes expansion in America easier. We have founded other colonies in Southern America.

North America instead is contested by several European countries.

In Europe, the Ottomans had to cede an insane amount of provinces for peace, and had to release a couple of countries.

Venice is still the richest country, but now it is France who is the second-richest.

Still, it is the Ottomans who have the biggest army. But they will have to rebuild their navy. They have both the infrastructure and the financial resources to do that.

And a new COT has been opened in the Ivory Coast. Venice is still trading big time. We have also queued a textile manufactory in Verona.

Venice is technology leader among the big countries.

The current mission is to conquer Somogy, Hungary. The truce with them ends in 1566.

captainktainer · Apr 2, 2013

I think it's fantastic how well Venice is doing. I've been following this AAR despite some computer crashes and failures, and I've been really enjoying it. My one concern is that it's getting harder to stick to the house rules; using Kongo to draw Bohemia into a war so they wouldn't attack you seems a little gamey, and it seems to break the "no two wars" rule. But honestly, we see today that great powers often juggle multiple conflicts at once, and Venice is nothing if not a great power. In fact, I see the relaxing of rules as quintessentially Venetian - the Republic was always willing to bend the rules when expediency required it.

I'm glad to see another update; I'm going to go see if there's one for Portugal.

Range · Apr 2, 2013

Sorry, I had fallen behind in reading your posts. So, glad you haven't given up.

Very interesting...well written (crisp and to the point). Wow...you're like a whirl wind...who can stand in your way?

diegoami · Apr 4, 2013

Hello everybody, and thank you for the feedback.

captainktainer said:
I think it's fantastic how well Venice is doing. I've been following this AAR despite some computer crashes and failures, and I've been really enjoying it. My one concern is that it's getting harder to stick to the house rules; using Kongo to draw Bohemia into a war so they wouldn't attack you seems a little gamey, and it seems to break the "no two wars" rule. But honestly, we see today that great powers often juggle multiple conflicts at once, and Venice is nothing if not a great power. In fact, I see the relaxing of rules as quintessentially Venetian - the Republic was always willing to bend the rules when expediency required it.

I'm glad to see another update; I'm going to go see if there's one for Portugal.

Thank you, I am happy you are enjoying it.

Actually, I should have formulated my house rules better. What I meant is that I will not declare more than one war at the same time, that is on the same day. The scenario I wanted to avoid is for instance declaring war on the Ottomans and the Algeria on the same day, if they are allies, so that I can get the Holy War Casus Belli on both of them. That was meant to slow down expansion somewhat. I don't have a house rule not to start a war when I am already in one, just not on the same day.

As for using Kongo to draw Bohemia into a war : I admit it is a bit gamey. But in the real world I would expect Bohemia not to declare war on their faithful ally Venice just to protect a small province in Switzerland. If I didn't want to use this trick I shouldn't have spent so much time trying to keep Bohemia an ally and help them become a superpower.

Range said:
Sorry, I had fallen behind in reading your posts. So, glad you haven't given up.

Very interesting...well written (crisp and to the point). Wow...you're like a whirl wind...who can stand in your way?

Give up... certainly not. Maybe taking it easy. Thank you for your kind words.

diegoami · Apr 4, 2013

The Treaty of Trent

It is surprising how a single historical document can change our understanding of an epoch. We probably wouldn't understand a lot about the politics of the XVI century if we hadn't found this treaty in the archives of Venice. A treaty known as the "Treaty of Trent".

Trent, 8 July 1560.

The Emperor of Bohemia and the Holy Roman Empire
The Most Serene Doge of Venice

aware of their differences, but also of the utmost importance of their alliance
agree THAT :

- Bohemia will not defend countries in the Holy Roman Empire, should Venice attack them with a valid Casus Belli. Venice can call Bohemia to arms to a fake war to enforce that.
- Venice will join any war Bohemia should be involved in, including with France. If answering the call to arms would cause Venice to be at war with one of her allies, the Merchant Republic can call the ally to arms to a fake war to avoid the conflict, and then use the Alliance casus belli to declare war against the strongest party.
- The Emperor and the Doge and / or their deputies will meet every six months, alternating between Bohemia and Venice.
- The next meeting will be held in Munich.

This treaty is secret and will not be divulged, and will be implicitly renewed after every government change in both countries.

Signed

King Boczek I of Hasburg
Doge Giuseppe Foscolo

The Emperor kept his word, and didn't intervene in Venice's conquest of Chur. But in December 1564, an ambassador from Bohemia came to Venice and informed the Doge Pasquale Foscarini that France had declared war on Burgundy over Hainaut, on which they had a core. Bohemia had intervened to defend Burgundy, and it was time to respect our part of the deal.

The Emperor demanded an immediate Venetian intervention. We managed to buy some time, as we had to recall troops from the colonies and start a fake war to call to arms our ally Aragon, so that we wouldn't have to fight them.

In April 1565, our troops were positioned in Savoy and our fleet was out of the ports, ready to start a blockade against France. Meanwhile, there hadn't been major battles between Bohemia and France yet. We had started a war against the Aztecs and called Aragon to arms.

The Doge Pasquale Foscarini summoned his generals to a meeting in Lombardia. Many things worried him. Several Venetian armies were still outside of Europe, and Venice's generals were nowhere as good as France's.

He asked his most experienced general, Bruno Schio, how the war with France would go according to him.

Range · Apr 12, 2013

Good thoughts to the post. Look forward to next installment.

Danking · Apr 18, 2013

Just got hooked on this and need more :C

diegoami · Apr 18, 2013

Thank you. Real life and nice weather have caught up with me, but I will be posting a couple of updates this weekend.

diegoami · Apr 20, 2013

Schio's thoughts about the upcoming war with France

Well. I think that we could be easily occupy Southern France, said the General Schio.

But we would have pay attention. The French army could counter attack and we could suffer some severe defeats, we might lose a full stack.

Luckily, probably, the French wouldn't press forward, as they would have to take care of the Bohemians and the Burgundians as well.

We would have to advance carefully. We are defensively-minded and we have bad generals, we would have to keep small stacks in the South, while Bohemia and Burgundians would keep the French busy.

By February 1567, we might have occupied the South of France. All the while blockading France's ports.

We could also use this opportunitity to seize Portuguese colonies in North America. As you know, Portugal is a satellite of France. And we would have uncontested naval supremacy during the war.

If we then played our cards well, we could extend our reach and defeat the French at Anjou. But not decisively.

Anjou would be hotly contested. Several battles would take place there.

Still, we would have to be careful. We would make a mistake sooner or later, which would result in a wipe stack. We would have to fall back.

By December 1567, the situation would have stabilized the front further south.

Probably by then, Bohemia and France would have signed a peace. After winning another battle, we could make a favourable peace with the French too.

These would be the maps of Europe and North America after the war. We would have several new colonies in North America, formerly belonging to Portugal.

The Doge had listened carefully. He was not sure what to make of this report and wondered how realistic this scenario was. He therefore asked the general Michele Labia whether he agreed with his colleague Schio.

diegoami · Apr 20, 2013

Labia speaks his mind

I don't fully agree with Schio, said the general Labia. First, we shouldn't rush into this war. Only after recalling our troops from Africa we should invade France. Around October 1565, this could be the situation.

We would beat back the French, and be able to continue the sieges in Southern France. This might be the situation in January 1566.

By October 1566, the merchant Palladio would have probably died, which would we good for our balance. We would have over 3k ducats in our treasury.

Even after some occasional defeats, we would still control southern France.

By January 1567, Bohemia might have peaced the French, who would now try to reconquest southern France.

We would not want to stay in this war. We wouldn't have a great war score, so we wouldn't get as much from the French as in the General Schio's scenario.

So the map of Europe would be pretty much unchanged. France's power base would be intact. Portugal would be still their vassal.

But it would be a less expensive war. We would have more colonies in North America, as in Schio's scenario. And a colony in the Caribbean islands, Martinique.

And we would have milked more from the French.

The Doge Pasquale Foscarini had listened to Labia's tale. Still, it was not clear what he was thinking.

Danking · Apr 20, 2013

Cuba is in the middle of the caribbean, take those morons! (and Habanians and Guantanamoians) and add them to schios plan, you can't let this opportunity go away and leave Frances power unscathed.

diegoami · Apr 20, 2013

Danking said:
Cuba is in the middle of the caribbean, take those morons! (and Habanians and Guantanamoians) and add them to schios plan, you can't let this opportunity go away and leave Frances power unscathed.

Well, they have full grown colonies on Cuba, it is going to cost 4 infamy per province, it isn't better than taking any other Caribbean province IMHO...

diegoami · Apr 20, 2013

1564-1568 : First war with France

The Doge had listened to his generals - and was unimpressed. Still, this had given him the opportunity to study thoroughly the map of France and its colonies.
"There must be a reason why I am the doge, and they are just generals" - he thought. He was sure he could lead Venice to a great victory against France.

It was important to declare war not too early, so that enough troops could be withdrawn from the colonies, but also not too late, otherwise we would not be able to support Bohemian troops.
In July 1565, Venice was at war with France.

The invasion of Southern France was painless, without any major battle. We were probably lucky that Bohemia and Burgundy were doing their part, too.

By June 1566, Venetian and Bohemian troops weren't meeting any resistance in France. The French Army was nowhere to be seen, the Bohemian had told us they had defeated them several times.

The situation in Europe by December 1566 was pretty much unchanged.

while in North America Venetian troops were having an easy time occupying French and Portuguese provinces.

By March 1567, Bohemia and France had made peace. France had had to relase Brittany and Normandy. Now Venice troops would have to face French troops. But we were fully capable to do that.

By May 1568, in fact, Venice was occupying most of mainland France, including the capital.

The war log told us of many successful engagements agains the French.

By August 1568, a crushing victory and a humiliating peace for the French had been achieved. France had to cancel the vassalage of Portugal, and release Dauphine, Guyenne and Champagne. And they had to cancel their alliance with Aragon.

... as can better be seen in this diplomatic map.

We had two new Caribbean islands, Barbados and Saint Lucia, and therefore some infamy to burn.

As all of our troops had to be committed to the war, we had now active rebels in Africa.

France's income had been severely reduced.

Regrettably our doge Foscarini has died, the new one left much to be desired.

Venice and world map in August 1568.

Danking · Apr 21, 2013

Damn poor poor France, that has got to hurt, but Dauphine and Guyenne are not your vassals? The new Doge is a military man I guess we will see a rather military active Venice with him.

Funnyman320 · Apr 21, 2013

Nice. I'm impressed with Venice's success.

Ricardo Rolo · Apr 21, 2013

Now that was a nice France bashing

And so, with the blue blob somewhat checked, what will Venice do now ? Another visit to the Ottomans ?

Venice Reloaded - a 1453 Venice DW 5.2 AAR

Corporal

Captain

Alien Space Bat

Colonel

Colonel

Private

General

Colonel

Colonel

General

First Lieutenant

Colonel

Colonel

Colonel

First Lieutenant

Colonel

Colonel

First Lieutenant

First Lieutenant

Captain