A Federation of "Equals" - A Danubian Federation Interative AAR

Dadarian said:

Aye, then we can punish them with annexing them into Croatia regardless of decision. Or we can remove the entirety of the ruling class, that works too.

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I think being drunk all the time has clouded your judgement. If they vote to become a full member state, then they cannot be suddenly made a state of Croatia. That is not how the system works.

~ Victor Kraus, Bt, NH, KST, COE, GMB, GCM, CD, PSM, Landmeister of Austria for, and Trapier of, the Teutonic Order, President of the Danubian Federation

Well, they must be punished. They can decide to become whatever they please under the jurisdiction of the LTA. After their inauguration as the government of their choosing, they are summarily disbanded and placed under Croatian jurisdiction. As such there are no conflicts with the well meaning and well thought out bill.

Dadarian said:

Well, they must be punished. They can decide to become whatever they please under the jurisdiction of the LTA. After their inauguration as the government of their choosing, they are summarily disbanded and placed under Croatian jurisdiction. As such there are no conflicts with the well meaning and well thought out bill.

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So why would the people vote to join this Federation if they do not have the right of self-determination?

~ Victor Kraus, Bt, NH, KST, COE, GMB, GCM, CD, PSM, Landmeister of Austria for, and Trapier of, the Teutonic Order, President of the Danubian Federation

I think we need a Supreme Court ruling on the Constitutionality of the proposed changes to State boundaries.

Tapscott said:

So why would the people vote to join this Federation if they do not have the right of self-determination?

~ Victor Kraus, Bt, NH, KST, COE, GMB, GCM, CD, PSM, Landmeister of Austria for, and Trapier of, the Teutonic Order, President of the Danubian Federation

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They have perfect self-determination. They can be whatever they want. However their loyalty to those of the Coup must be punished, as will all supporters.

Well I must depart, I pray something horrible shall not come to Hungary or Bosnia.

((after all it is quite late here in Ohio ))

Dadarian said:

They have perfect self-determination. They can be whatever they want. However their loyalty to those of the Coup must be punished, as will all supporters.

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Which then defeats self-determination. Quite simply it seems to me that they would choose to be a fully independent state from this Federation, because if they choose any of the other ways of governance, their will will be ignored, and they shall be annexed into another state undemocratically. Quite simply the people who supported the Insurgency must indeed be punished, but you seem intent on punishing the states themselves.

~ Victor Kraus, Bt, NH, KST, COE, GMB, GCM, CD, PSM, Landmeister of Austria for, and Trapier of, the Teutonic Order, President of the Danubian Federation

Zverev, you are the worst person I have ever had the displeasure of having in this parliament! You would propose to wipe out an entire group of people, the constituents of this Federation themselves!!?? You make me want to vomit in pain and disgust, you vile excuse for a human being! Some of the Magyars have committed crimes, but a people should not be condemned for the crimes of the few! Have you ever wondered if maybe there was once a Magyar who felt the same way as you and committed what you are about to? Except you apparently feel you must defeat them in cruelty and barbarity! All the peoples of this Federation must be free and equal, you cannot establish democracy on hatred and bigotry! If there truly is a righteous God in this world may He strike you down where you stand! <calms himself down> Also, I would like to add that while Croatia would be very happy to join with Bosnia in a Confederation, respecting all their rights and giving them full autonomy, we will not force them to join us simply for their siding with the Monarchists. However, if Bosnia does decide to remain independent, referendums in the Croatian areas would be nice to see if they would be interested in joining Croatia.

Tapscott said:

Which then defeats self-determination. Quite simply it seems to me that they would choose to be a fully independent state from this Federation, because if they choose any of the other ways of governance, their will will be ignored, and they shall be annexed into another state undemocratically. Quite simply the people who supported the Insurgency must indeed be punished, but you seem intent on punishing the states themselves.

~ Victor Kraus, Bt, NH, KST, COE, GMB, GCM, CD, PSM, Landmeister of Austria for, and Trapier of, the Teutonic Order, President of the Danubian Federation

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Grabs a bottle and pours himself a glass

What do we do then? Nothing, let the lackeys of the Grand Duke get scot free? Goodness man, we need a solution.

Turns to Obradovic

Oh go die of a heart attack caused by your undying love. I simply proposed the easiest and quickest method of ending any and all Hunnish oppression and rebellion. Obvious it will not happen. Now go back to having a aneurysm caused by not enough love around the world.

((Thoctar, I am your old friend Popa, Zeverv is a different character for a different AAR))

Dadarian said:

Unless that every ounce of their being as an ethnic group is dedicated to the removal of perceived Federation shackles and the resumption of the Crown of St Stephen. This is a permanent problem, and will never go away. Your half compromise will only aggravate the situation.

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czechmasaryk said:

They are Danubian! , Hungarians are a people in this Federation and Yes they have had disagreements with the nation, but so many have caused issues over the years.. Lombards, Venetians, Austrians, Silesians, Bohemians.. and I may go on. As Obradovic has said monarchists and states-rights advocates have been the issue not a select people.

Pavel Pištora, Deputy for Bohemia

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czechmasaryk said:

I have never stated that Danubian is a culture, it is an identity that many of us should hopefully now feel. Now sir (Pištora rises out of his seat) do you wish to come with me now to Budapest and see a young, poor, maybe starving little Hungarian child. Look him in the face and tell him he is an abomination and that he must leave his life and go across the ocean likely to his death, I dare you to tell him that!

-Pavel Pištora, Deputy for Bohemia

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Dadarian said:

Grabs a bottle and pours himself a glass

What do we do then? Nothing, let the lackeys of the Grand Duke get scot free? Goodness man, we need a solution.

Turns to Obradovic

Oh go die of a heart attack caused by your undying love. I simply proposed the easiest and quickest method of ending any and all Hunnish oppression and rebellion. Obvious it will not happen. Now go back to having a aneurysm caused by not enough love around the world.

((Thoctar, I am your old friend Popa, Zeverv is a different character for a different AAR))

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((I was wondering why you changed, I don't know why I messed that up....sorry D) I still wholly disbelieve in the seemingly widespread consensus around this place that the Hungarian people must pay for the suffering of their leaders. I believe disarming them is punishment enough, along with the reduction of their Councillors, you should be in favour of that more since they would they would have the same representation rather than twice as much. I also believe we must make sure that ultranationalist propaganda is not put into the curriculum of the Hungarian school system. But taking revenge is above a civilized nation.

Name: Osman Farisovic
Date of Birth: October 3rd, 1825
Place of Birth: Tuzla, Bosnia
Culture: Bosniak
Position: Military Officer
Bio: Osman was born into a Muslim family, with a Imam father. During his childhood, he showed an aptitude for leadership and athletics, which transferred well into his military career. Soon he bore the rank of Captain, which he held until the eventually war with the Danubian Federation and the Ottoman Empire. Despite connecting with his Islamic Ottoman masters, Osman developed a respect for the cries of freedom for the Bosnian people, which led to his refusal to fight such friends of Bosnia. Later, upon hearing the news of Bosnia supporting the Royalist forces, Osman once again refused to fight, choosing neutrality over war. Now with the coup dissolved, Osman has assumed an active role in the military once more.

(( Temp character while I await Lilic's fate. ))

Dadarian said:

Grabs a bottle and pours himself a glass

What do we do then? Nothing, let the lackeys of the Grand Duke get scot free? Goodness man, we need a solution.

Turns to Obradovic

Oh go die of a heart attack caused by your undying love. I simply proposed the easiest and quickest method of ending any and all Hunnish oppression and rebellion. Obvious it will not happen. Now go back to having a aneurysm caused by not enough love around the world.

((Thoctar, I am your old friend Popa, Zeverv is a different character for a different AAR))

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Yes we need a solution, but your plans would only sow the seeds of future strife. The issue with Hungary must be dealt with carefully, and I favour removing the nobility that sided with the Royalists. They are the ones with the influence, power and money that allowed Vaszary to seize control. As it stands they should be the ones to pay, not the people who had nothing to do with the Insurgency. It is well known that a clear majority of people of this Federation supported me and the legitimate government, so I do not see the need to punish our supporters.

~ Victor Kraus, Bt, NH, KST, COE, GMB, GCM, CD, PSM, Landmeister of Austria for, and Trapier of, the Teutonic Order, President of the Danubian Federation

It is true, the majority of the people of Hungary were against the coup, as it is I believe that we should not split Hungary among its neighbouring states, though perhaps dividing it in two may be necessary.

I feel that the states in no way should be punished for what a few crackpots have done. How would that be fair for the rest of us? I full heartly agree punish those crackpots for there crimes, yet if you start punishing the people then are you not being the oppressive tyrants you once revolted against? Killing the people or destroying states because of there leaders is undemocratic and is a terrible precedent. Murdering innocent men women and children will only earn us enemies, at home and abroad, do you realise what this will do to foreign relations? Dont make the federal government the bad guy.

- Frydryk Augustyniak, Councilor of Silesia

Innerestadt Act Nay
IRA Aye
RRA Nay
Education Act Aye
Amended Federal Guard Act Aye
Prison Act Aye
Healthcare Act Aye

Two days before the Royalist surrender; the two regiments sent to quell the rebellion in Bosnia, reached the outskirts of Banja Luka. The city was fortified heavily, mostly by trenches, and wooden spikes. As, the two Royalist regimes began making their way towards the city. As, the regimes descended on the city, they were met by an estimated 1,700 Bosnian militiamen. The militia was made up of Bosnian Muslims, Serbs and Croats.

The battle commenced, quickly the Royalist troops were the obvious winners. Although, they realized they were losing the militia continued to fight until, an estimated 150 troops retreated inside the city. The Royalist marched into the city, as civilians threw rocks, and anything possible at them.

As, General Joseph Lange, commander of the Royalist troops, rode into the city center he was shot by a militiamen. The General, was instantly killed. The Royalists now wanted revenge, they killed all people in sight until Konstantin Vranjković came out of hiding.

The Royalist hung, and humiliated him in the center of the city. Then sat his hanging body on fire, and leaving him there. Royalist troops brutally occupied the city, until their surrender.

Konstantin Vranjković, became a martyr for all the people of Bosnia, to defend their state against all foreigners.

~ An excerpt from Bosnia and Herzegovina: History 1800-2000, by: Arthur Jonathan, 2003

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(( New character))



Name: Veljko Vranjković
Date of Birth: June 18th, 1828
Place of Birth: Konjic, Bosnia
Culture: Serbian
Position: Member of the Free Bosnia Committee; Acting-President of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bio: Cousin of the late Konstantin, Veljko followed his cousin footsteps into politics, and joined the Free Bosnia Committee. When his cousin joined the Royalist he left the Committee in protest. He rejoined the Committee after his Uncle joined the Loyalists.

He shares most of the same values as his cousin, but is slightly more liberal. He is for a Bosnian province separate from Croatia, and bringing democracy to Bosnia.

Innerstadt Act: Yes
IRA: Aye
RRA: Abstain
Education Act: Abstain
Guard Act: Yes
Prison Act: Yes
Healthcare Act: Yes

The news that there will be a trial against my person both sadden and surprise me.
I suppose that it has to do with the unfortunate acts of violence in San Marco during the civil war, to this congress I can say that both the investigations and the police actions were carried out by the Sammarese militia, now disbanded, and by their leader Giuseppe Dragotto, if those people committed any crimes during the disorders, and if the esteemed Ammiraglio Dragotto didn't tell the complete truth when he reported mass resistance from the patrician royalists then this happened without my authorization and without my knowledge.
It was an extremely confused time and I can assure you that most of the officers of the Republic simply wanted to defend their freedom from a royalist coup.

I'm ready to defend myself in the trial and I therefore resign from the position of President of San Marco, the Sammarese parliament will soon elect a new President, may he finally rule until the end of his term without any other incidents.

- Giovanni Arpaio

((I would suggest to add Dragotto to the trials, since Arpaio didn't do everything alone... er, if he did something at all :laugh:
Oh, and sorry for the absence but these days I was quite busy))

((Why the Hell Not!))

viola said:

((I would suggest to add Dragotto to the trials, since Arpaio didn't do everything alone... er, if he did something at all :laugh:
Oh, and sorry for the absence but these days I was quite busy))

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((Psh, you think I'd let Dragotto go? No, Dragotto is going to die; he was just included in the 'and other associates' part of my lists.))

Silesia must be torn apart. It's people gave up the right to rule themselves long ago, when they harassed the federation, elected tyrants and supported a rebellious regime. Put them under the supervision of a state who can be responsible, or remove them from the Federation.

My people fought long and hard to be part of this Federation, and Silesia spits on our troubles with every word it speaks. End them.

This is my solution, which will deal with the buffoons in a way which will also ensure they cannot whine to us forever more.

The Koçi Proposal
a) The State of Silesia will be turned into a Protectorate State of the Federation.
b) An elected Government of Silesia will remain in place, have it's own constitution, internal policy and economic control.
c) However, matters of Military and foreign policy will remain under Federal control.
d) Furthermore, it shall have no seats in Congress, no votes in the Presidential election and it shall only vote for it's own, internal matters.
e) The Federation maintains the right to intervene in Silesia in times of emergency.
f) The Silesian State has no control over the Silesian military outside of small, regional militias.​

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Silesia have too long cemented it's reputation as a rogue state. As they see no reason to partake in our democracy, we shall eject them from it and allow them their own festering hole to remain in. And for god's sake, let us remove their militia too, before they attempt to murder us all again.

-Koçi

((If you're just going to troll us this whole game with Silesia, I'm having the state kicked out.))