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Henry Wu

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Aug 6, 2009
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What is the main difference between CVE & CVL ??

Is CVL only a smaller normal CV which can attack any surface target, and CVE is mainly for defense against subs?
 
You've pretty much got it. CVL also have air brigades that can be upgraded giving them more staying power in the long run, while CVE do not.
 
CVLs are literally half carriers in the game. It is like building a carrier with only half the IC and you get half the naval power of a CV.
CVEs are like destroyers, useful against subs but weak against surface ships.
 
CVEs in combinations with DDs (with ASW-brigades attached to) are the best way to kill submarines while CVLs are a cheap way to protect your CVE/DD-stacks.
 
I guess there are two factors here...
First is related to modeling the unit and the engine: we liked the idea of leaving the CVEs CAG-less... gives them limited lifespans, as they had historically... but that also means that their stats had to be present in the earlier models, so that even those built in the late 1910s and 1920s have decent stats in the 30s/40s.
Second is gameplay. Boosted ASW stats give the model more of a purpose in the game.
And fwiw, you guys are right... a fleet carrier should be about 3 or 4 times 'stronger' at ASW duties than an escort carrier... but historically they were just not employed in this role; not until after the war when the USN went down the (brief) path of specializing their carriers (ASW carrier, helicopter carriers, attack carriers, etc).
Anyway, it's not perfect, and may even deserve further tweakage going forward. Comments (and diffs) welcome. :)
 
taffy3 said:
I guess there are two factors here...
First is related to modeling the unit and the engine: we liked the idea of leaving the CVEs CAG-less... gives them limited lifespans, as they had historically... but that also means that their stats had to be present in the earlier models, so that even those built in the late 1910s and 1920s have decent stats in the 30s/40s.
Second is gameplay. Boosted ASW stats give the model more of a purpose in the game.
And fwiw, you guys are right... a fleet carrier should be about 3 or 4 times 'stronger' at ASW duties than an escort carrier... but historically they were just not employed in this role; not until after the war when the USN went down the (brief) path of specializing their carriers (ASW carrier, helicopter carriers, attack carriers, etc).
Anyway, it's not perfect, and may even deserve further tweakage going forward. Comments (and diffs) welcome. :)
Click to expand...

Well, i was wondering why DH has only a few models of CVEs/CVLs even the SU, USA, UK, etc developed various types of carriers like assault ships or helicopter carriers. CVEs should have at least three more models and CVLs two.
 
SonGoku said:
Well, i was wondering why DH has only a few models of CVEs/CVLs even the SU, USA, UK, etc developed various types of carriers like assault ships or helicopter carriers. CVEs should have at least three more models and CVLs two.
Click to expand...

Heh, I considered 1950s era carriers when I implemented the light_carrier last summer... it's definitely on the to-do list. ;-)
 
parnis said:
Using fleet carriers for ASW was a big waste, and dangerous to boot.
Click to expand...

Doesn't mean they couldn't do it, though, which is the way this game models it at present. It's significantly more dangerous for them if they're somehow inferior at killing subs to a carrier with less than half the planes they carry, because you're going to run into subs all the time as a carrier.

The advantage of escort carriers should be their cheapness and quickness to build - they should be the militia unit of carriers.
 
Gort11 said:
Doesn't mean they couldn't do it, though, which is the way this game models it at present. It's significantly more dangerous for them if they're somehow inferior at killing subs to a carrier with less than half the planes they carry, because you're going to run into subs all the time as a carrier.

The advantage of escort carriers should be their cheapness and quickness to build - they should be the militia unit of carriers.
Click to expand...
Yeah fleet carriers should be at least as good as escort carriers against subs, and realistically ought to be better at least in terms of attack. The reason you don't use them for sub hunting is that it's a very expensive ship that you almost certainly have better things to do with and:
-sending around a full CTF to hunt subs isn't going to be as effective as lots of small CVE+DD's groups since you'll have multiple ones in different places, even if the CTF is better at combat itself, it needs to find them.
-it's a waste of supplies/oil since from what I remember, ships at sea cost more
-if you don't send a full CTF, it's potentially very dangerous for your highly expensive fleet carriers.
 
Dichromate said:
Yeah fleet carriers should be at least as good as escort carriers against subs, and realistically ought to be better at least in terms of attack. The reason you don't use them for sub hunting is that it's a very expensive ship that you almost certainly have better things to do with and:
-sending around a full CTF to hunt subs isn't going to be as effective as lots of small CVE+DD's groups since you'll have multiple ones in different places, even if the CTF is better at combat itself, it needs to find them.
-it's a waste of supplies/oil since from what I remember, ships at sea cost more
-if you don't send a full CTF, it's potentially very dangerous for your highly expensive fleet carriers.
Click to expand...

Thing is, when you're playing Britain versus Germany, you don't know if you're going to run into a submarine group or the Bismarck or the Scharnhorst or some other surface-action group. It seems a bit unfair if your fleet carriers run into some submarines and can't do much to them, even though in reality carriers were deadly versus submarines, just because the devs wanted to create an artificial niche for the CVE by making the CV literally helpless against submarines.

I just checked the game files and for each CV you build, you could get sixty CVEs. That's insane.
 
Gort11 said:
I just checked the game files and for each CV you build, you could get sixty CVEs. That's insane.
Click to expand...

CVE had a deplacement of 10 to 20 000 t, much similar to cruisers (but with no armor, no guns, merchant ship engines). As the USA built around 120 CVE during the war (for 26 Essex class CV and 9 Independance converted CV), I would suggest to increase the cost by 3, changing the ratio to 20 CVEs for one CV.
 
Beryl said:
CVE had a deplacement of 10 to 20 000 t, much similar to cruisers (but with no armor, no guns, merchant ship engines). As the USA built around 120 CVE during the war (for 26 Essex class CV and 9 Independance converted CV), I would suggest to increase the cost by 3, changing the ratio to 20 CVEs for one CV.
Click to expand...

The USN Essex class CVs were c.27k tons
The RN Illiustrious class CVs were c.23k tons

These were complex and expensive capital ships - with impressive levels of damage control.

The USN Independence class (11k tons) were based on Cleaveland class light cruisers - same hull and engines and protection. They carried c.45 aircraft (about half the aircraft of the Essex class)

The numerous CVEs produced by the USN and RN varied in size (around 10k tons) but were much less robust than the "proper" CVs and CVLs. They carried 20-35 aircraft.

Some of the early CVEs only carried 4-5 aircraft - and were only really merchant ships with a flat deck - the aircraft had no hanger and all maintainace and arming and fueling took place on the deck (which must hard work in rough weather). Stil they provided vital air cover when it mattered - even small number of aircraft supporting a convoy effectively neutered the U-boats.
 
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