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Thread: Holy Roman Electors in EU4

  1. #1

    Holy Roman Electors in EU4

    Most people are pretty aware of how the mechanics of the electors work in EU3. You can inherit them to become an elector yourself, you can vassalize or PU them to get them to vote for you almost all the time, and making them like you will get them to vote for you, even if you aren't actually anything approaching a good choice, among other things.

    What I want to see in EU4 is being an elector having a use other than making it easier to become Emperor yourself. The electors held a lot of power over the emperor, and could threaten him into giving them concessions or they would elect someone other than his designated heir. As it is the AI being an elector doesn't really help them, it only makes them into a bigger target. I would like to see at lest a limited ability for diplomatic options based on elector status, as well as some kind of way to limit people (and technically AI even though they probably still won't be smart enough to do this) from exerting massive power over the electors, like vassalizing them.

    Compare how the electors fared over the course of history with other princes of the HRE. Saxony and Brandenberg both grew powerful, while others in the area fell under the Dominion of the Swedish and Austrians. The Eastern Bishoprics had less territorial expansion, but survived for a very long time. Maybe even a mini-emporor bonus for the military and prestige would help them out.

    I just think they aren't given their historic power in EU3, and would like to see that changed in EU4. They obviously weren't super powerful first-rate powers just because of their elector status, but it allowed them to exert more influence than other states their size would have been able to.

  2. #2
    Not a Turk Chamboozer's Avatar
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    I agree. Personally I think it should be impossible to vassalize countries which are in the HRE. Or, kind of off topic, I think vassalization should be about more than just winning one war, you should have to continually exert effort to keep control over vassal states.
    I should go.

  3. #3
    EU3 has an annoying event that removes elector status if the Emperor hates you too much. This never happened in real life and really needs to go.

    In general the Electorates changed around too much in EU3. Really Electorates should stay Electorates and shouldn't get annexed.

    The addition of extra Electors also didn't happen enough. There should be an event around 1700 that lets there be more electors.

  4. #4
    Captain Sir Iain's Avatar
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    It's quite hard to think up how the exact game mechanics should work with the electorates. I think that Electorates should be tied to territory, but you should never be able to hold two electorates at the same time...
    Saxony, Brandenburg, Trier, Mainz, Cologne and Bohemia were always conntect with their respective titels and territories.
    the whole Saxon electorate switching (3 times in EUIII timeframe, 2 times in EUIV) would be perfectly represented by having the electorate connected to Wittenberg (Leipzig in EUIII).

    The Palatinate and Bavaria are a bit harder to represent, because historically the Emperor gave the Palatinate vote to Bavaria in 1623. In 1648 the Palatinate didn't get their original vote back, but a new electorate was added for them. That new electorate dissapeared when the Palatinate inherited Bavaria in 1777.
    Hannover was created because of their loyalty to the Emperor. It's creation was a breach with tradition.

    To represent the above in game, an event when two extra electorates are created (one around 1650 and one around 1700) would be best. The Emperor could give these extra electorates to HRE states that have good relations with the emperor. These new electorates should be tied to a specific province as well. When an elector inherits a province with a electorate attached to it, one of the electorates should be destoyed, and the emperor can award the existing electorate to a new province.

    Electoral provinces would be Berlin, Prague, Wittenberg/Leipzig, Pfalz, München, Hannover, Köln, Trier and Mainz.

  5. #5
    Imperial Vicar of the HRE Ruwaard's Avatar
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    @ Sir Iain: Hannover is mostly political, but not only because of loyalty, it also had to do with the balance between Catholics and Protestants in the Electoral College. After all the Saxon Elector converted to Catholicism for the Polish throne.

    Adding a new electorate under the right circumstances (like religious balance), most likely with fewer than 7 electors; should be possible if the emperor and the current electors agree to that.

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    Samuel de Champlain vol. II GregElSho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Iain View Post
    To represent the above in game, an event when two extra electorates are created (one around 1650 and one around 1700) would be best. The Emperor could give these extra electorates to HRE states that have good relations with the emperor.
    So, there would be an event popping up for no reason save the date, and then the emperor would take his pick? I wouldn't fancy that at all.

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    Captain Sir Iain's Avatar
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    It would be much better if there was an actual reason for the emperor to promoted someone to an electorate.
    reasons would be the reformation (set to happen, but will it influence Germany as much as it did in our history?) and a major war over religion and the constitution of the HRE and a war against the Ottomans. If EUIV is anything like EUIII those last two reasons are very rare, if not impossible.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by GregElSho View Post
    So, there would be an event popping up for no reason save the date, and then the emperor would take his pick? I wouldn't fancy that at all.
    Well you could instead have triggers that related to the actual causes (not sure of the Palatinate case, but Hannover was, as others have said to maintain the Catholic/Protestant split). The emperor would also need to reallocate electorates if they are annexed (as happened during the Napoleonic wars).

    There is a slight problem that if the Reformation proves a fizzer, or was more powerful than history then these considerations shouldn't come into play.

  9. #9
    Corporal GrandArchon's Avatar
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    I have always disliked the random nature of new electors appearing. I would like it if the emperor could nominate new electors in the same was as Imperial Reforms if the total number of electors falls below a certain point. Maybe to offset the chances of the emperor becoming too powerful such a move could cost the emperor imperial imperial authority. Seems like it would be a fairly easy change.
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  10. #10
    MM Prime Minister in Exile Vishaing's Avatar
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    I just want there to be a text file somewhere that lets us script how Electors Vote. Oh, and another entry that lets us script who is eligible to be Emperor.
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  11. #11
    General Fawr's Avatar
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    I'd like to see the abiltiy for electors to unvassalise themselves in the right conditions (and their previous overlord/emperor starts a war over that the other german states should band together using the new coalition mechanics)

  12. #12
    An interesting link to wikipedia to see how much power the elector had:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince-elector

    as you see not simple little state to vassalize to gain votes to become Emperor, but in the end co-governors of the Empire itself... and in interregnum times effectively the governors:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_vicar

    Should this be represented in game?

    In the end it was not true that after Emperor death the electors elect a new in the same day, months could pass so we've an interregnum...

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