Factions Overpowered?

CountVlad · Oct 16, 2012

At the risk of sounding like a total n00b, does anyone else think that the new faction system is a little overpowered? Playing as the Byzantine Empire I was forced to lower my crown authority twice, change my succession laws to Elective and within a couple of months I was forced to change it again to primo-watsit (can't remember what it's called. I never use it). I've also had quite a job stopping rebellions through this system and in the end I gave up in frustration after just 20 years when my character was assassinated by a faction.
Maybe I just need to go back to being a Count or Duke when my own vassels aren't constantly plotting my downfall.

Amadeu of Savoy · Oct 16, 2012

Sounds like a typical Byzantine reign.

TheChronoMaster · Oct 16, 2012

This seems about right for Byzantium, or other comparably large realms with insubordinate vassals -- it SHOULD be very difficult to hold these realms together, much moreso than it was prior to this patch.

unmerged(362834) · Oct 16, 2012

I started as an Emir in Spain... in the first decade, I've got to fight only one faction where two counts thought they could take my place. Right now, I'm holding two duke titles and have five vassals but that was the only faction that appeared in 25 years or so...

Shadowhope · Oct 16, 2012

I'm playing as the Kingdom of Jerusalem right now, and within eight years I've had to put down two revolts from independence factions. Including one that triggered about two days before a holy war was declared on me.

Is there any way to deal with factions beyond killing people we dislike?

unmerged(161019) · Oct 16, 2012

The biggest problem I have are independence factions started by vassals who like me quite a bit that are instantly large enough to be launched. I don't mind them otherwise--it's fun trying to figure out ways to put them down (scheming, bribing, assassinating). But several times I'm notified of them when they are already large enough to not only launch immediately but also large enough to where there's no way I can win militarily. And the weirdest thing is that they often come from happy vassals.

NezzeOne · Oct 16, 2012

TheChronoMaster said:
This seems about right for Byzantium, or other comparably large realms with insubordinate vassals -- it SHOULD be very difficult to hold these realms together, much moreso than it was prior to this patch.

I honestly hope that this doesn't lead to Muslims steamrolling Byzantium even -faster- than they do now.

Blond_Knight · Oct 16, 2012

I like the concept of factions but makes destroying an empire or kingdom from within much easier (and it already was easy before this patch). On the other hand, managing a kingdom is more challenging. Playing as a vassal now is definitely way too easy now. The system needs to be balanced somehow to keep the challenge of being a ruler but prevent unlimited abuse of factions as a vassal.

Lord Finnish · Oct 16, 2012

Throughout its history Byzantine Empire was essentially every day at war. If there were no Turks or Normans there were usurpers and all such rebels itching to take the throne.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Byzantine_usurpers

And for crown authority factions and stuff, that's just to balance the Empires. I'm better this way, playing the Byzzies is no longer just steamrolling the Turks and all that. Now it's a serious challenge just to survive especially a post-Manzikert start.

xZeven · Oct 16, 2012

It would be nice if the factions had a reason for what they are doing, most of the time they appear to be creating factions just for the sake of it. I mean every year there is a war to lower crown authority yet it cannot get any lower.

Edit: Come to think of it, its probably likely there are so many factions because of the amount of duchies, I can imagine it being much easier to manage a empire if the vassals are kingdoms rather than dukes.

unmerged(532817) · Oct 16, 2012

Is there an FAQ on factions? I just fired up my current game (begun in 1.06) and quite quickly got a large -- and growing -- independence faction. Not surprising; I'm the HRE in this game and have basically conquered all of Christendom and a good chunk of the Islamic/Tengri worlds at this point, so it's not surprising that people want independence. But I don't want to give them independence.

So what do I do about this? Is it simply a matter of improving relations with the faction members? Is there a plot/ambition to squelch this faction?

Is this just a replacement for the old "raised fist" vassal revolt warning?

For that matter, when I've got a dozen or more different vassals who are part of the independence faction, what is their goal -- independence for each of them or a single new independent realm with one of them as the liege?

And in terms of other factions, I've got a number of "lower crown authority in XYZ" factions. Is there an equivalent of the old method of dealing with this, which was asking them to end their plot to lower crown authority?

Alerias · Oct 16, 2012

Kill, imprison plotters or make them your friends.

Factions DO seem very potent, but then again, I expected them to be so. They're a major new "Lets make this hard" mechanic.

This being said, its almost fully moddable. Just like you could tweak how likely people were to plot based on their traits and such, theres a new file for factions. It uses largely the same modifiers, too. "Ambitious" vassals are nastier than ever with 4X more odds they choose to join any Faction.

Nague · Oct 16, 2012

scampers said:
The biggest problem I have are independence factions started by vassals who like me quite a bit that are instantly large enough to be launched. I don't mind them otherwise--it's fun trying to figure out ways to put them down (scheming, bribing, assassinating). But several times I'm notified of them when they are already large enough to not only launch immediately but also large enough to where there's no way I can win militarily. And the weirdest thing is that they often come from happy vassals.

the muslims have huge revolts on their own, in my observer game, the sejuks imploded into 20 independend realms, since the faction system makes vassals revolt together and not after each other, just like in CK2 plus.

Malebranche · Oct 16, 2012

Haven't tried 1.07 yet, but you only need to occupy the faction's leader, right? Shouldn't that be easier than fighting the swarms of vassals that declare independence the day your ruler dies?

Lord Finnish · Oct 16, 2012

Malebranche said:
Haven't tried 1.07 yet, but you only need to occupy the faction's leader, right? Shouldn't that be easier than fighting the swarms of vassals that declare independence the day your ruler dies?

Yep, don't waste time going after random armies just rush to the faction leader's capital and make him surrender.

Malebranche · Oct 16, 2012

Lord Finnish said:
Yep, don't waste time going after random armies just rush to the faction leader's capital and make him surrender.

I understand that you still have to fight the plotters, but you're at least free from sieging half your empire?

Lord Finnish · Oct 16, 2012

Malebranche said:
I understand that you still have to fight the plotters, but you're at least free from sieging half your empire?

Just take out the faction leader, when he surrenders everyone else will too (the war ends). The rest get big relations bonuses for 1) you crushing a large revolt and 2) sparing them after their betrayal. Sure you could just imprison and castrate everyone but there's no reason to do that, once they rebel and fail it's going to take a while before they stand against you again.

Frozen_Predator · Oct 16, 2012

Nague said:
the muslims have huge revolts on their own, in my observer game, the sejuks imploded into 20 independend realms, since the faction system makes vassals revolt together and not after each other, just like in CK2 plus.

In my current game the Seljuks lost the war because they got as major independence faction revolt at the borders shortly after i had finally defeated the doomstacks.
I've had one faction revolt so far which I shattered easily. The kings in my realm are now more busy with their own factions in their realms to do anything about me and my remaining dukes don't seem to care one bit what happens.

Veetor · Oct 16, 2012

Sounds good to me.

Sir Tornado · Oct 16, 2012

CountVlad said:
At the risk of sounding like a total n00b, does anyone else think that the new faction system is a little overpowered? Playing as the Byzantine Empire I was forced to lower my crown authority twice, change my succession laws to Elective and within a couple of months I was forced to change it again to primo-watsit (can't remember what it's called. I never use it). I've also had quite a job stopping rebellions through this system and in the end I gave up in frustration after just 20 years when my character was assassinated by a faction.
Maybe I just need to go back to being a Count or Duke when my own vassels aren't constantly plotting my downfall.

Use ERE's awesome manpower to keep massive retinues on standby and then crush these factions after they rebel with them. You only have to defeat the faction leader.

Factions Overpowered?

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