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Thread: Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome - DevDiary 4: Patriarchs & Pentarchs

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    Game Director Paradox Dev Team Doomdark's Avatar

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    Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome - DevDiary 4: Patriarchs & Pentarchs

    As you know, the Byzantine Empire is the theme of Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome and patch 1.07, and an integral part of the Empire was of course the Orthodox faith. So, today I'll talk about a feature we planned to put in the DLC, but later decided to make a free part of patch 1.07; Autocephalous Patriarchs and the Pentarchy.

    The main difference between Orthodox Christianity and Catholicism is probably the lack of a single leader (although the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople is nominally the first among equals.) Instead, there are a number of practically autonomous Patriarchs, though they remain in communion with the rest of the Orthodox Church. This is called autocephaly, and we now represent this in the game by making the Court Chaplain in Orthodox kingdoms a Patriarch who is the religious head of everyone in the kingdom. He has power over excommunication and divorce over all characters in his jurisdiction, though only the Ecumenical Patriarch can grant invasions. Autocephalous Patriarchs have to be bishops (rule a temple Holding), preventing them from marrying or inheriting titles.

    However, this is not all; we are also adding another concept called the Pentarchy. These are the five original heads of pre-schism Christianity; the bishops of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. If there is an Orthodox bishop in one of these Holdings, he will be considered a Pentarch, and will act like an autocephalous Patriarch over his entire traditional see (Orthodox kingdoms within such an area will not have their own Patriarchs.) Each reigning Pentarch will strengthen the authority of the entire Orthodox faith. Incidentally, this mechanic also has bearing on some key Decisions in Legacy of Rome (more on that in the next dev diary.)

    Click image for larger version

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    As an added bonus, we are making the other forms of Oriental Christianity a bit more interesting. There is now a religion called Miaphysite, which includes the Coptic Orthodox Church and the Armenian Apostolic Church. In game terms, it's another version of Orthodoxy, with its head in Alexandria instead of Constantinople. It has the same mechanics with autocephalous Patriarchs and the Pentarchy as Orthodox Christianity, but is not considered a heresy by Catholics and Orthodox Christians. The Monophysite heresy is now a heresy of the Miaphysite Church. Lastly, most Orthodox heresies now also work like Orthodoxy itself, and we've added the Nestorian and Monothelite heresies.

    Click image for larger version

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    (Notice the African faces - they're another DLC in progress.)

    The religious system with the new Orthodox features is of course fully moddable, though you cannot combine investiture and antipopes with the Pentarchy mechanic.

    That's all for now. The next dev diary will be the last, and will deal with the unique decisions, events and mechanics in the Legacy of Rome DLC.
    Last edited by Regina; 04-10-2012 at 11:07.
    Henrik Fåhraeus

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    Von Strohm Kolonel's Avatar
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    Sweet! Release already!
    "Hic iacet inclitus Godefridus De Bulion qui totam istam terram acquisivit cultui Christiano, cuius anima cum Christo requiescat. Amen."
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    How is succession controlled for created autocephalies? Normal church succession only or can the feudal sovereign interfere with appointments?

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    It's nice that religion of Ethiopia is no longer considered heresy. I had a Monophysite heretic pop up in my catholic Cyprus under orthodox Byzantium. That was weird.

    Edit: also is that a black person on picture? Does that mean we will finally get black people in Africa instead of arabian-looking? Girls too?

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    Second Lieutenant brown111's Avatar
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    After this Dev Diary I just start wonder about new DLC: "Fundamentals of Medieval Era", where Pope is choosen by groups of cardinals, instead of situation existed in current Crusader Kings, where Pope is non-cleric 26 years old guy :/

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    Committed Anti-P'doxian Sleight of Hand's Avatar
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    African faces and proper Armenian Christians? Praise Jebus! Allahu akbar!

    Thank you so much, Doomdark.
    For awesome CK II graphical stuff please click here and here.

    I'm currently working on my own set of semi-historical scenarios for CK II. ETA: Q1 '15.

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    Game Director Paradox Dev Team Doomdark's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jia Xu View Post
    How is succession controlled for created autocephalies? Normal church succession only or can the feudal sovereign interfere with appointments?
    Autocephalous Patriarchs are the "Court Chaplains" of Orthodox kings, pure and simple.
    Henrik Fåhraeus

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    Great!

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    Will religious moral authority have more gameplay impacts with 1.07/LoR? Having 100 authority at the moment is not significantly different from having very low authority.

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    Field Marshal Don_Quigleone's Avatar
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    What will happen if the Bishop of Rome is Orthodox? How will this effect Catholicism, or for that matter Orthodoxy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomdark View Post
    Autocephalous Patriarchs are the "Court Chaplains" of Orthodox kings, pure and simple.
    I see. Thank you for your response, sir. So as court chaplains are appointed by the sovereign, that implies that these patriarchs are purely appointed, yes? Is this automatic for every orthodox kingdom, or do you have to actively choose to create an autocephaly within your kingdom?

    Also, if I restore an orthodox patriarch to Rome, is there anyway to reflect the top spot of "honour" or is he stuck having having less honour authority (for invasions and stuff) than the patriarch in Constantinople?

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    Alluccate: "Viva 'o Rre!!!" Ciccillo Rre's Avatar
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    Questions:

    - How does the Invasion CB work for the Orthodox? Will it allow to (re)conquer whole non-Orthodox kingdoms? What are the conditions?

    - Does the creation of the Miaphysite/Coptic religion have to do with some improvement in the balance of the Eastern African region?

    Observations:

    - The new black/North African face is AWESOME

    - On the other hand, there seems to have been little improvement with the new Byzantine portrait, at least from what one can see from the screenshots…

    Question I know you won’t answer to:

    - What is the release date?
    CK2 mod: In Novo Iure, Dynamic de jure structure and improved cultural toponymy

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    Field Marshal grumphie's Avatar
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    what does that mean for the release date? 2 weeks from now?

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    Field Marshal Nyrael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Quigleone View Post
    What will happen if the Bishop of Rome is Orthodox? How will this effect Catholicism, or for that matter Orthodoxy?
    It will probably just increase Ortodox MA and reduce Catholic MA with Pope moved to another province (same way as if someone takes Rome from him now)

  15. #15
    Autocephalous Patriarchs are the "Court Chaplains" of Orthodox kings, pure and simple.
    Does this only apply if the Orthodox kingdoms are independent?
    For example, if the Byzantine Empire makes Georgia a vassal, would it instead fall under the authority of the Patriarch of Constantinople instead?

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    Game Director Paradox Dev Team Doomdark's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhoDaZZ View Post
    Will religious moral authority have more gameplay impacts with 1.07/LoR? Having 100 authority at the moment is not significantly different from having very low authority.
    No, it basically only affects heresies still.
    Henrik Fåhraeus

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    Game Director Paradox Dev Team Doomdark's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Quigleone View Post
    What will happen if the Bishop of Rome is Orthodox? How will this effect Catholicism, or for that matter Orthodoxy?
    The Pope will still exist elsewhere, but there is another potential effect, which I will talk about next time.
    Henrik Fåhraeus

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    General nyah's Avatar
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    Will there be Nestorian Georgians in a 1066 start game? My memory may be faulty, but I believe it lasted that long in Georgia?

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    Game Director Paradox Dev Team Doomdark's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jia Xu View Post
    I see. Thank you for your response, sir. So as court chaplains are appointed by the sovereign, that implies that these patriarchs are purely appointed, yes? Is this automatic for every orthodox kingdom, or do you have to actively choose to create an autocephaly within your kingdom?
    It's automatic. If you have a court chaplain outside a Pentarchy, he will be an autocephalous patriach.

    Also, if I restore an orthodox patriarch to Rome, is there anyway to reflect the top spot of "honour" or is he stuck having having less honour authority (for invasions and stuff) than the patriarch in Constantinople?
    He will be stuck as a lesser patriarch, which is not ideal in theory, but plausible in practice.
    Henrik Fåhraeus

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    Lt. General DamianGrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccillo Rre View Post
    Question I know you won’t answer to:

    - What is the release date?
    Lol, ok.
    What is release date:
    Date when a product, press release or news story will be released to the public. The release date is announced in advance to provide consumers and other interested parties specific details regarding the release. This may include the date, day, hour or even minute of the upcoming release.

    Anyway, http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/cr...legacy-of-rome
    RELEASE DATE
    10/16/2012

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