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Thread: Potential Historical Updates

  1. #1

    Potential Historical Updates

    I was going to post this in the General Discussion section, but my notes ended up being so long that I thought it was better suited as its own thread! Basically, I've been going over country histories (like I did for Tyrol) to check on border changes, and I've found several missing countries and border changes that shouldn't be too hard to add in (well, some of them might be, but it would be worth it for greater historical accuracy)!

    1. Burgundy
    At the start of the game, Burgundy is too big;
    *Flanders (Vlaanderen, Ghent) should be independent and control Artois & Nevers.
    *Hainaut (that's both Hainaut and Valenciennes) should be under the control of Bavaria-Straubing (roughly Oberpfalz), which also had Holland and Frisia.
    This leaves Picardie and Charolais, which I still need to look at - the former I was having trouble finding information on (EDIT: belonged to France until 1435, then to Burgundy), and the latter I had ignored since I removed it from the game so I could add a new province elsewhere, but it shouldn't be a part of Burgundy until 1390).
    In 1361, the last Burgundian Duke dies and Franche-Comte goes to Flanders, while the rest of Burgundy is inherited by France. However, in 1363 Burgundy is restored by one of the French King's sons, and in 1384 Burgundy inherits Flanders through marriage (well, it was more of a personal union; their lands weren't properly united until their kid got the throne in 1405).

    2. Brunswick-Luneburg
    The territorial history of Brunswick, Luneburg and Hannover as it appears in the game is close, but not quite right; here's a short version of what it should be:

    START: LUNEBURG and BRUNSWICK (Brunswick and Hannover).
    1369: LUNEBURG dies without issue; line passes to Saxe-Wittenburg (SAXONY); leading to a war between them and BRUNSWICK.
    1388: War ends; BRUNSWICK victorious.
    1409: LUNEBURG independent again.
    1428: Monarchs swap land titles.
    1432: HANNOVER (CALENBURG, but it's easier to just call the entity HANNOVER from its inception) becomes independent (king was deposed by brother).
    1473: BRUNSWICK dies out; HANNOVER gets it and resumes title.
    1483: HANNOVER split off.
    1484/1485: HANNOVER annexed.
    1495: HANNOVER formed.
    1584: HANNOVER inherited by BRUNSWICK.
    1634/1635: HANNOVER dies out; LUNEBURG inherits and divides back into BRUNSWICK and LUNEBURG (taking CALENBURG).
    1665: HANNOVER made independent.
    1689: HANNOVER inherits SAXE-LAUENBURG.
    1705: HANNOVER inherits LUNEBERG.

    Hannover would go on to get control Bremen-Verden (Stade) from Sweden in 1719, but whether that should be represented as independent in Personal Union or annexation (as it currently is) is up for debate.

    3. Bavaria Divisions
    Over time, Bavaria was historically divided into at least four states; of which three of these can be shown in D&T without provinces being added or changed (Bavaria-Ingolstadt doesn't suit the current borders);

    By 1356, there should be:
    BAVARIA-LANDSHUT - holds Neiderbayern.
    BAVARIA-MUNCHEN (really UPPER BAVARIA at this point, but simpler to just call it this) - holds Munich, and has Tyrol in Personal Union.
    BAVARIA-STRAUBING - holds Oberpfalz, Holland, Zeeland, Friesland, Ostfries, and inherits Hainaut in July.

    In addition to this, Brandenburg was held by the family; it had been held by Upper Bavaria, but in 1351 the duke gave it to his two younger brothers who up until then had co-ruled Upper Bavaria with him. At this point in time, Brandenburg also held Neiderlausitz and Neumark (and Altmark; Magdeburg is depicted way too high in the game - if Magdeburg, Anhalt and Meissen all move down a province, this sorts things out and makes the borders a bit more accurate)

    1361 - Louis dies in MUNCHEN, Meinhard succeeds.
    1363 - Meinhard dies; LANDSHUT inherits MUNCHEN. TIROL goes to Austria; sparking a war.
    1369 - LANDSHUT gives up claims to TIROL in return for lots of money.
    1373 - BOHEMIA captures BRANDENBURG; gives control to son.
    1375 - LANDSHUT monarch dies; three sons share rule.
    1392 - LANDSHUT partitioned;
    *LANDSHUT (Niederbayern)
    *INGOLSTADT (NOT SHOWABLE!)
    *MUNICH (Duh)
    1417 - STRAUBING monarch dies; succession crisis breaks out between claimant in LIEGE (the Bishop was the brother of the monarch) BRABANT (Brabant, Antwerpen, Limburg; married to the daughter of the monarch).
    1421? - LIEGE gets control of STRAUBING.
    1425 - LIEGE leader dies; STRAUBING split in two; Oberpfalz (and the title of STRAUBING) to MUNICH, and the rest to Jacqueline (monarch's daughter; best represented by either HOLLAND or HAINAUT); BRABANT claims it.
    1427 - BRABANT leader dies.
    1430 - BRABANT successor dies; lands annexed by BURGUNDY.
    1432 - Jacqueline dies; lands go to BURGUNDY.
    1447 - INGOLSTADT (NOT SHOWABLE) inherited by LANDSHUT
    1503 - LANDSHUT dies without male heir; succession crisis breaks out between PALATINATE (married to daughter) and MUNICH (claimant).
    1505 - MUNICH wins; unites LANDSHUT and reforms BAVARIA.

    One problem remains...I'm not sure when Friesland became independent!

    4. Greece (a brief look)
    I'm having trouble finding information regarding the border changes of the Ottoman and Byzantine Empires from the earlier parts of the game; the sources I've checked suggest the Ottomans held most of Greece and the South Balkans for all of the 1400s, and not Byzantium followed by Venice followed by the Ottomans, as currently shown in game.

    However, I did find that the lands held by Trinacria (Larissa and Athens) were actually two vassal states; the Duchy of Athens and the Duchy of Neopatria, and they exchanged hands constantly; at first they were vassals of Aragon, but were lost to Florence in 1390 (Neopatria not mentioned after this, but apparently pretty small due to Byzantium attacks). They then went to Venice from 1395 to 1402, then back to Florence. Although possibly a vassal of Byzantium in 1444, they were definitely conquered by Ottomans in 1456. With this in mind, it might make more sense to give both provinces to "Athens"; make that a vassal, and remove the Athens core on Larissa when it gets annexed.

    5. Electors
    1526 - AUSTRIA inherits BOHEMIA (needs to become Electorate in place)
    1619-1620 - PALATINATE briefly controls BOHEMIA (war).
    1623 - PALATINATE stripped of Electorate; given to BAVARIA.
    1648 - PALATINATE made Electorate; bringing number to eight.
    1692 - PALATINATE goes Catholic; ninth Elector created in HANNOVER.
    1706 - COLOGNE and BAVARIA banned.
    1714 - COLOGNE and BAVARIA restored.
    1723? - COLOGNE controls MUNSTER too!
    1777 - PALATINE inherits BAVARIA.
    1784 - COLOGNE becomes independent; former COLOGNE bishop goes to MUNSTER.
    1801 - TRIER and COLOGNE abolished, MAINZ shifted to Regensburg (doesn't exist!!!)
    1803 - WURTTEMBURG, HESSE-KASSEL (made HESSE as result), SALZBURG (TUSCANY) and BADEN made Electorates.
    1806 - SALZBURG (TUSCANY) moves to WURZBURG.

    6. Teutonic States
    A number of independent bishoprics existed alongside the Teutonic Order in Livonia and Prussia (and one in Pommerania):
    *Osel-Wiek: held Osel and the west bit of Estland.
    *Dorpat: held east Livland.
    *Riga: held most of Valmiera.
    *Courland: held west Kurland.
    *Warmia: held Warmia.
    *Cammin: held north bits of Hinterpommern and Koslin.

    These could be represented either by messing up the historical borders slightly - i.e. let Dorpat occupy all Livland - or changing the province borders - i.e. adjust Livland so it's the right shape for Dorpat. Some are more difficult to represent; Courland would need to be adjusted slightly and replaced by the Duchy of Courland and Semigallia after the Livonian Order falls, Riga province would need to go to the Hansa so the Riga tag can represent the bishopric...

    7. Various Notes
    What follows are a number of notes I made when going over the histories of Bohemia, Austria and Hungary, but which expanded over time as I found more links to other countries - or just information about them; for instance, Tripoli ended up in the hands of the Knights of Malta at one point!

    START: BOHEMIA ruled by Luxemburg family (holding Brandenburg in PU?), but LUXEMBOURG independent; inheriting Brabant and Limburg. HUNGARY held by Angevins; also consists of Croatia and Transylvania, and Bihac (closest).
    1370 - HUNGARY gets POLAND in Personal Union.
    1378 - BRANDENBURG becomes independent under a Luxemburg family
    (Sigismund).
    1382 - Mary becomes Queen of HUNGARY; loses POLAND.
    1383 - BRABANT becomes independent from LUXEMBOURG.
    1385-1386 - NAPLES tries and fails to claim HUNGARY.
    1387 - Mary's husband Sigismund (BRANDENBURG) becomes King of HUNGARY (Personal Union; should start from 1382).
    1388-1411 - BRANDENBURG gives throne to cousin, then returns???
    1402 - BRANDENBURG sells Neumark to TEUTONIC ORDER
    1415 - BRANDENBURG goes to Hohenzollerns.
    1437-1457: BOHEMIA ruled by AUSTRIA (PU?)
    1440(39 really) - Succession war for HUNGARY breaks out between POLAND (claimant) and AUSTRIA (newborn heir).
    1443 - LUXEMBOURG sold to BURGUNDY; disputed by Anne of Austria.
    1444 - Succession war ends with defeat and death of POLAND king.
    1455 - TEUTONIC ORDER sells Neumark to BRANDENBURG.
    1457 - Ladislaus Postumus dies; AUSTRIA(STYRIA) loses BOHEMIA and HUNGARY.
    1458 - BOHEMIA becomes Hussite.
    1466 - BOHEMIA excommunicated, HRE and HUNGARY declare war; POLAND aids BOHEMIA.
    1467 - Austrian claims abandoned to LUXEMBOURG.
    1477 - BURGUNDY dies out; divided between AUSTRIA (personal union?) and FRANCE.
    1479 - HUNGARY takes control of Moravia, Silesia and Lusatia.
    1482 - AUSTRIA gives Burgundy lands to his son.
    1486-1490 - HUNGARY claims Austria; occupies Austria and Styria.
    1490 - Son of POLAND king elected king of HUNGARY (via distant royal marriage).
    1494 - HUNGARY gives up claim to Moldova; loses Moravia, Silesia and Lusatia?
    1498 - AUSTRIA royal marriage with CASTILLE; leading to Habsburg rule in 1506.
    1506 - "BURGUNDY" inherits SPAIN; reforms into SPAIN.
    1510 - Tripoli taken by SPAIN.
    1515 - FRANCE annexes MILAN.
    1516 - SPAIN inherits ARAGON (NAPLES, SICILY and SARDINIA).
    1519 - SPAIN inherits AUSTRIA (could perhaps form "HABSBURG"?)
    1520 - OTTOMANS invade HUNGARY due to insult.
    1522 - KNIGHTS lose Rhodes; gifted Malta and Tripoli by HABSBURG.
    1526 - Ferdinand I; brother of HRE Charles V, inherits HUNGARY and BOHEMIA; rival HUNGARY arises in Transylvania.
    1535 - NEUMARK released as independent state (easier to represent with the TEUTONS).
    1551 - KNIGHTS lose Tripoli, HUNGARY taken by AUSTRIA.
    1555 - HABSBURG split into AUSTRIA and SPAIN (the rest).
    1556 - TRANSYLVANIA becomes independent.
    1570 - TRANSYLVANIA becomes OTTOMAN vassal.
    1571 - NEUMARK back to BRANDENBURG.
    1648 - BREMEN falls into PU with Sweden.
    1682-1685 - Revolt (in Slovakia) forms HUNGARY, which becomes an OTTOMAN ally before being annexed.
    1712-1715 - BREMEN occupied by DENMARK.
    1715 - BREMEN falls into PU with GREAT BRITAIN (HANNOVER really, but they ruled England).
    1798 - Malta captured by FRANCE
    1800 - Malta defects to UK

    There's not really much else I can add from there; my other notes concern the partitioning of Hesse and the Duchy of Julich-Cleves-Berg, which can only be shown if the Western Rhine provinces are redrawn and/or renamed - well, Hesse-Kassel and Hesse-Darmstadt can be mostly shown, just Darmstadt won't actually be a part of Hesse-Darmstadt). At the moment, I've tried the following:

    *Aachen: renamed Julich, made state.
    *Berg: borders adjusted and made state.
    *Frankfurt: renamed Fulda, borders adjusted and made state.
    *Hesse: borders adjusted, renamed Darmstadt.
    *Koblenz: renamed Cleves, given to Cleves.
    *Mainz: borders adjusted.
    *Nassau: moved and made state.
    *Trier: borders adjusted.
    *Worms: renamed Saar, given to Nassau (actually, I think it was independent at first...best make that a state too; plus it can then represent the Saarland after WWI).

    Actually, this just sounds confusing, I should probably post a picture. To wrap this up;

    *Mecklenburg-Schwerin and Mecklenburg-Gustrow (but not Mecklenburg-Strelitz) can be shown, but only if a province is either added or taken from another state...perhaps Brandenburg? If it's given Altmark like I suggested above, it can stand to have Brandenburg merged with Potsdam, with Potsdam being reworked into Gustrow.
    *Pommerania was partitioned into at least six states over the years...but these only existed within the country (well, except for one time before 1356); the various "dukes" all ruled Pommerania together as a solid state. The best way to represent this is by decentralising/federalising the country.

    Oh, and if Wurttemburg and Konstanz are redrawn a bit, they can become Stuttgart and Urach, and represent the time Wurttemburg was divided in half - I believe Wurttemburg-Urach's shield was a mixture of the original shield and Swabia's; perhaps that should be a formable nation after all!
    Last edited by Almaron; 03-09-2012 at 01:25.

  2. #2
    Lt. General cacra's Avatar
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    While i understand historrically it is correct do you not think that spain inheriting austria would make it a bit over powered? I don't mean to sound like I am just trying to pick this apart because you have obviously put a lot of work into researching this.

  3. #3
    Probably...but it could be fun to play! But I suppose making it a personal union instead would weaken them...

  4. #4
    Captain Sudertum's Avatar
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    The Edict of Worms in 1521 splited technically the spanish-austrian state, garanting Ferdinand the rule in austria for the future...

  5. #5
    Hmm...the difficult part is how to represent that. Does Ferdinand become the monarch of a fully independent state, or does Austria become a vassal state of Spain (or even a Personal Union?). He was certainly subservient to Charles V, but he didn't behave in the way a vassal would...probably best to just make it fully independent - albeit with an alliance and great relations with Spain - and let those who want to keep the area united start playing from 1519.

    Ok, so now it's:
    1519 - "HABSBURG" formed.
    1521 - AUSTRIA split off from HABSBURG.
    1526 - AUSTRIA inherits BOHEMIA and HUNGARY (might need to look at Croatia's history!).

  6. #6
    Captain Sudertum's Avatar
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    Making Austria independent seems acurate to me, Charles V/I still was emperor of the HRE and king of spain until 1556. So he still dominated this region...

  7. #7
    Lt. General cacra's Avatar
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    Im no expert on the habsburgs, but if they were two brothers shouldnt an alliance and 200 relations be enough? After all they were two different people.

  8. #8
    I've been gradually going over histories and updating game files on my computer to improve things, and I've also been redrawing the map to do the same thing; albeit by changing and shifting several provinces around and trying to only add new provinces where they are truly needed - in Europe, only four have been added; Lucca in Italy, Bukovina in Romania, Kovno in Lithuania and Gomel in Belarus, and a similar number is scheduled for adding on the other continents; thus preserving balance to some degree.

    Written from memory - some of my notes aren't handy at the minute - here are the changes I've made to Germany...the others will follow.
    A name in speech marks indicates the State, as opposed to the Province with the same name - although it implies the Province name will change with it.

    GERMANY

    *"Magdeburg" shifted to Anhalt; Altmark to "Brandenburg".
    *"Anhalt" shifted to Meissen.
    *"Meissen" shifted to Leipzig.
    *"Thuringen" shifted to Bamberg, Thuringen Province renamed Halle and given to Saxony - to be annexed by Prussia following the Napoleonic Wars.
    *Brunswick borders adjusted; western part to Hannover - this allows a vaguely more accurate Kingdom of Brunswick to exist when surrounded by Prussia following the Napoleonic Wars.
    *"Oldenburg" to Bremen, Oldenburg Province renamed Ostfries and given to Friesland.
    *Stade borders adjusted and Province renamed Bremen - although the state was really Bremen-Verden alongside the Free City of Bremen, there's not enough room to show both.
    *Osnabruck made independent - although the Bishopric of Osnabruck wasn't really this big, it's the only way to show the later borders of the Kingdom of Hanover.
    *Westfalen renamed Paderborn, and made independent - Westfalen had been secularised by Hesse-Darmstadt prior to the formation of the Kingdom of Westphalia; hence it was not a part of it. Rather than make things confusing, it's better to call it Paderborn instead; although this could cause problems as Paderborn wasn't historically annexed for another two years after Westfalen was, and it went to Prussia instead.
    *Aachen renamed Julich - allows for Julich-Cleves-Berg to be formed.
    *Nassau renamed Berg and made independent, with the existing Berg redrawn and renamed Cleves - allows Cleves to inherit Berg and form the United Duchies of Julich-Cleves-Berg.
    *Hessen renamed Nassau and made independent - Nassau was historically an independent state, and can easily be added into the game.
    *Frankfurt, Koblenz (and by extension Trier) and Mainz all redrawn and reworked into Fulda, Darmstadt and Mainz - annoyingly, the cities of Darmstadt, Mainz and Frankfurt are all located very close to eachother, and are all very important states that existed around the same time as one another; Hesse-Darmstadt was one of the two major halves of Hesse, Mainz was a Prince-Elector, and Frankfurt was a Free City that was eventually given to the former Prince-Elector of Mainz when his lands were taken by Napoleon and reformed into a Grand Duchy. However, if Frankfurt is omitted and renamed Fulda and Mainz restricted (somewhat unhistorically) to the west bank of the Rhine, then this allows all three states to be shown, along with more; Fulda first went to the expelled Kings of the Netherlands (which should be replaced by Holland), and later went to the former Prince-Elector of Mainz, who merged it with his other lands to become Frankfurt.
    *Worms renamed Saar, and given to Nassau.
    *Franken renamed Bayreuth, and made independent - along with Ansbach, Bayreuth once formed the Burgraviate of Nuremburg - another state which should exist - but later split into the two states which were occasionally ruled together, and always under the house of Hohenzollern (the Electors of Brandenburg). In addition to this, Franconia consisted of the present provinces of Franken, Augsburg and Wurzburg; the Bishop of which actually held the title Duke of Franconia.
    *"Ansbach" shifted to Augsburg, Ansbach Province renamed Heidelberg and given to Palatinate - this allows for the Palatinate's lands on the east Rhine to be shown. Plus, if slightly redrawn, it can be annexed to Baden during the Napoleonic Wars to give it the modern-day shape.
    *"Augsburg" shifted to Schwaben.
    *Briesgau eastern borders redrawn - allows for Baden's post-Napoleonic borders to be shown.
    *Wurttemburg and Konstanz renamed Stuttgart and Urach, and borders redrawn with Ulm - not only does this improve the historical borders of the state, but it allows for the partitions of Wurttemburg to be shown; into Wurttemburg-Urach and Wurttemburg-Stuttgart.

    I actually think I adjusted some of this over time; for instance, I recall merging Cleves and Berg into one (EDIT: Nope, it was Cleves and Mark I merged), and I think I used the spare province to split Thuringen into Gotha and Weimar; allowing for the "Saxe-" states to be shown. In addition to this, I took Troppau Province from Bohemia and shifted it to Mecklenburg so it could become Gustrow, with Mecklenburg itself becoming Schwerin; allowing the two earlier halves of Mecklenburg to be shown - but not Mecklenburg-Strelitz, regrettably.

    France and Italy have both had minor border adjustments in places (Lyonnais is way too small, for one); in France, Charolais and one of Brittany's provinces have been relocated to show Comminges (in the middle of Bearn; to show the bit annexed by France) and La Marche (with the surrounding provinces redrawn to better show the small French OPMs). In Italy, Lucca has been added over south Parma and Modena (much bigger than it really was, but it's to improve borders over various times), Brescia's been restored to it's pre-D&T size, and Cuneo has been split in half; with a province coming from either Sardinia or Sicily (haven't decided yet) to allow Montferrat (which was held by the Palaialogos, no less!) and Saluzzo to exist in its place. Oh, and to the right of Italy, Gorz has been redrawn to separate what was the County of Gorz from Carinthia.

    I could go on like this...best to wait until I've got my proper notes...and can add a map!
    Last edited by Almaron; 19-09-2012 at 07:06.

  9. #9
    And I'm lost.

    A map would be nice. Very nice.

  10. #10
    As for Byzantium, the territories were a mess. However, from the 1440s onward the Byz Emperor was essentially a vassal to the Ottomans. He was forced to marry his daughters to him and pay massive tributes. Greek revolts would "liberate" the territories from the Ottomans while the main army (under the Sultan) was on campaign, then be crushed when they return. They didn't have regional regiments patrolling for rebels like EU3 represents.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzanti...93Ottoman_Wars

  11. #11
    Working on a map as we speak!

    Found some new stuff for South France! Apparently the Kingdom of Arles (Burgundy, but stretching to the Mediterranean) still existed as a de facto entity by 1356 that was held by the Holy Roman Emperor - although all its former lands (Lyonnais, Dauphine, Provence, Savoy and West Switzerland) had broken away over the years, and the Duchy of Burgundy had become independent long before. If Arles was important enough at that point in time, there should probably be a "Form Kingdom of Arles" mission for any of the states with a claim to the area...could aid in forming a larger Lotharingia.

  12. #12
    Righty, here's my test map so far, showing how EUIII ends up looking (some borders are terrible; my bad):

    Test Image.PNG

    The light yellow colour indicates a new country, the light green indicates a new province. Several provinces have been shifted around and completely renamed to allow more regions to be shown. Ignore the white on Pisa and Siena...couldn't get the proper colour for them at the time.

    So, the four new provinces are:
    *Lucca in Italy; added to improve Napoleonic borders, as well as present day state borders.
    *Bukovina in Romania; added to make Romanian borders accurate (although half of Bukovina is in Ukraine at the moment, so it might not be the best name...)
    *Gomel in Belarus; added to allow borders to be shifted in the area to improve Partition of Poland depiction (of course, this could potentially be fixed if two smaller provinces in the area are merged together, and the spare province goes here instead, as I have done in France and Germany).
    *Kovno in Lithuania; added to show the borders after WWI, when Vilyna was a part of Poland.

    And the new states are...from the top:
    *Dorpat (Bishopric in Latvia; actually smaller than that)
    *Schleswig (Duchy in Denmark)
    *Cammin (Bishopric in Pommerania)
    *Warmia (Bishopric amidst Teutonic Order)
    *Osnabruck (Bishopric in Germany; actually smaller than that)
    *Paderborn (Bishopric in Germany; also contains Duchy of Westphalia for reasons mentioned earlier)
    *Breda (Lordship in Netherlands)
    *Berg (Duchy in Germany)
    *Julich (Duchy in Germany; replaces Aachen)
    *Nassau (Duchy in Germany; also holds Saar)
    *Fulda (Bishopric in Germany; replaces Frankfurt)
    *Cambray (Bishopric in France)
    *Bayreuth (Duchy in Germany; actually smaller than that)
    *Bavaria-Landshut and Bavaria-Munich (Divisions of Bavaria; Bavaria-Straubing is represented by Holland)
    *Vaud (Barony in Switzerland)
    *The Leagues (Republic in Switzerland)
    *Valais (Bishopric/Duchy in Switzerland; can later be used in Napoleonic times!)
    *Gorz (County; holds Gorz and Lienz)
    *La Marche (Duchy in France)
    *Perigord (Duchy in France)
    *Verona (Duchy in Italy)
    *Saluzzo (Duchy in Italy)
    *Montferrat (Duchy in Italy)
    *Comminges (County in France)
    *Lucca (Republic in Italy)
    Plus there should be states for the major divisions of Hesse (Darmstadt and Kassel), Mecklenburg (Gustrow and Schwerin) and Wurttemburg (Stuttgart and Urach), and Bern/Schwyz (so that Switzerland can be broken up) and perhaps even a Swabia state!

    And the province border changes...there's too many to note! But this does suit several historic areas a bit better; for instance, Lienz is smaller, so it can become a part of Tirol (which it did and still is a part of) without eating up too much of Carinthia, and Krain has been redrawn; stealing a province from Hungary to become Maribor - east Slovenia was once a part of Styria; this layout allows for that to be shown. I've also moved Troppau from Moravia to become Gustrow, as noted above.

    Thoughts on this? The borders I've done in the east are terrible and very much works in progress; aside from showing their modern-day borders, the ones in Belarus and Ukraine are to show the borders Poland got during the Partitions, and after being re-established after WWI, and the ones in Transylvania are to show the land that went to Hungary during WWII - although that might be sort of pointless if the game isn't extending that far.

    EDIT:
    On another note, I took a look at Switzerland's history while doing this...what a nightmare; so many independent states getting incorporated into one another over the years! Thankfully, the provinces we have are pretty good already; the only changes that are needed - in addition to the updates to make several provinces independent - is that Fribourg should become Vaud, Schwyz should be redrawn to include the city of Zurich, and Zurich should be renamed something else; perhaps Thurgau, so the Habsburgs can control it?
    Last edited by Almaron; 24-09-2012 at 07:45.

  13. #13
    First Lieutenant Sir Iain's Avatar
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    If you're still unsure about Friesland, the best way to represent it would be an independent republic covering both Friesland and Ostfriesland. Holland/Bavaria-Straubing could get a core, but they never really owned the area. From 1498 Friesland should go to the duchy (not electorate!) of Saxony, while Ostfriesland would stay independent as a monarchy. In 1515 Friesland was sold to Charles IV. Ostfriesland was inherited by Prussia in 1744.

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