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Thread: How the Crown Authority system could evolve?!

  1. #1
    First Lieutenant
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    How the Crown Authority system could evolve?!

    The game could become even more interesting if each level of Crown Authority got more differenciated than the others.

    The highest level of CA could allow the liege to have a voice in his vassal's succession. According to the research I've done, this was quite frequent in muslim countries and it would make playing as a muslim character, really differentiated.

    It could work the same way the pope nominate bishops in catholic countries... or it could take the form of an event where, after the death of your vassal, pretenders go to their liege so that he nominates one. Of course, unhappy pretenders would take action like joining some foreign power

    Samely, instead of restraining vassals' ability to start private wars, high CA should only make them ask for the authorization of their liege. Leiges with high diplomatic ability could convince their vassals to back... Leiges with poor diplomatic ability however, would have to endure a relation penalty each time they refuse their vassal's request.

    High CA could also allow lieges to exchange titles with their vassals... no more need to revoke a title before giving a new one.

    The same way some vassals try to lower CA, some other vassals should try to make it higher. For example, weak vassals that are facing claims of some other strong vassals would realize they need a better protection.

  2. #2
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    C'mon guys! Do you really think the CA mechanic can't be any better ?!

    The more ideas we, players, give, the easier dev's brainstorming will be!

  3. #3
    Megas Domestikos Lord Finnish's Avatar
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    "Vassals can no longer wage war" should actually mean that. Now it doesn't make a damn bit of a difference regarding vassal wars if you have medium or absolute CA.
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  4. #4
    Field Marshal Hootieleece's Avatar
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    All these "Plot" driven Wars make Medium CA and higher pointless.......maybe if High or Absolute CA outlawed those also.

    Like I've said before make raising CA harder.First thing King Does is raise Authority upon assuming throne even if he just won a civil war.....and all his vassals just vote for it like sheep.(even the ones who were loyal to old King)

    -make raised CA(-30) malus apply immediately thus maybe less chance of passing.
    -only allow CA to be raised after 10 years on throne.......like succession laws.It can be lowered immediately.
    -make CA raising or lowering cost Prestige (-500) so it is less of a no brainer.

    Those are my ideas for now.......

  5. #5
    General Zander's Avatar
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    Yeah, more important than differentiating CA levels is making it actually take time or effort to raise. I've seen a 30-year old Excommunicated French king with 0 Diplomacy have no difficulty raising CA in the early 12th century.

  6. #6
    Lt. General Samuil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Finnish View Post
    "Vassals can no longer wage war" should actually mean that. Now it doesn't make a damn bit of a difference regarding vassal wars if you have medium or absolute CA.
    This. If vassal wars can not be forbidden, then I should at least have the right to intervene and support the duke that is wrongfully attacked, or have the reason to imprison attacker, banish him or revoke title or something.
    He who knows when to fight will be victorious

  7. #7
    Colonel Diet of Worms's Avatar
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    Agree with CA needing to be harder to raise. CK2+ does this quite well I think. There are prestige requirements for raising CA which from memory are 500 for low, 1000 for medium, 2500 for high and 5000 for absolute. There is also IIRC a prestige cost of 500 or so.

    I like the idea of having at least some of the malus for raising CA apply as soon as it is proposed, that would make winning the vote much more of an issue for all but the most popular monarchs.

    Edit: really not sure I like the idea of making higher CA levels even more restrictive by curbing plot-wars. It would make playing as a vassal under medium and above CA even more limited. A way for the monarch to intervene in some reasonably balanced way would be good though - maybe reduce but not eliminate the tyranny penalties for imprisoning/revoking warring vassals?

  8. #8
    Second Lieutenant Rilder's Avatar
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    I think the CA system as a whole needs to be a bit more interesting with all kinds of different effects depending on their levels from diplomacy to rebellions, hell certain character traits should affect which CA level is most efficient, it shouldn't just be a straight up "Higher CA is better" system, each one should have their advantages and weaknesses.

    For example with lower authority levels Vassal uprisings will more common but generally just be one guy with illusions of Grandeur, while with the higher levels vassals will be more apt to work with each other to oust a well entrenched king, and thus rebellions might be rarer but if it happens you could end up getting royally screwed.

  9. #9
    Field Marshal Hootieleece's Avatar
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    -Absolute Monarchy CA possibly removing the Tyrant penalty for Executing Traitors.
    -Absolute Monarchy CA possibly lowering the Tyrant penalty for Exiling Traitors to -10.
    -revoke 1 extra title for free from Traitors
    -revoke 1 title from any "justly" imprisoned characters for Free.(thus making plotting against your leige or getting excommunicated more dangerous)


    -raise the malus for Absolute CA to -50
    -Make any Wars against Tyranny of X, like Succession Wars ability to call any vassals of leige to your side.(thus giving Civil wars more dangerous feel)

    Just some more Ideas..........but these would have to be implemented with the other restrictions mentioned to raising CA.

  10. #10
    Right now I can't really remember which mod did this, but IMO it's the best solution.
    There were no crown laws but there were laws with the decisions. There was one group with laws that decided who the vassals can attack (no one, internal and everyone), a set of laws for revocation (you cant revoke titles, you can revoke titles, you can revoke infidel titles for free) and etc.

  11. #11
    There should be more but different crown laws.

  12. #12
    Hetman Wielki Koronny Lamprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Finnish View Post
    "Vassals can no longer wage war" should actually mean that. Now it doesn't make a damn bit of a difference regarding vassal wars if you have medium or absolute CA.
    I want to throw in on this side too. Why say 'vassals can no longer wage war' when ALL they do on High CA is wage war against each other? Did Paradox mean "vassals can no longer use chancellor to manufacture claims" instead? Because they constantly plot for claims, intermarry to get claims, etc. and have no problem whatsoever going to war.

    It's such a simple fix. Make it to vassals can can only declare war on their liege. I don't care if my vassals get claims so long as they can't press them, unless they go through me to lower CA first.
    Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.

  13. #13
    Field Marshal Frederic III's Avatar
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    I also think CA could be changed, even that it could be fragmented in many small changes. The current CA view would only be to measure your progress. I find it ridiculous that we cannot change many laws under the same reign, they should just make vassals less eager to vote for those laws, except if they have reasons.

    I said in another thread that :
    - Weak vassals should tend to want a strong CA
    - Strong vassals should tend to want a weak CA
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamprey View Post
    I want to throw in on this side too. Why say 'vassals can no longer wage war' when ALL they do on High CA is wage war against each other? Did Paradox mean "vassals can no longer use chancellor to manufacture claims" instead? Because they constantly plot for claims, intermarry to get claims, etc. and have no problem whatsoever going to war.
    This can be avoided with proper vassals management (i.e. marriages/succession control and respect of de jure borders for dukes).
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  15. #15
    I would like it if counts and even dukes could switch leige on their own if you have any crown authority lower than medium, with it being even more likely if they are de jure. Kingdom of Italy springs to mind for this, if you break away from the HRE it can be insanly annoying having to go to war with the the HRE one province at a time to get all the small dejure lands off them, now I am not saying they should be easy to switch, based on power of the new leige, power of the current one, location and all that. If the HRE has just gone through a big sucession war or someone has attacked for the crown it drops authority down, this is normally when I would attack them, but it would be good if it could be done diplomatically, even have a pop up saying so and so wants to join, let the HRE defend for the county if they so desire.

    Absolute crown authorty should be better, I usually have it either on medium or sometimes high but I see not much benifit to going absoulte. Maybe this could be where changing to absolute meant vassals can not fight at all except for independance (and perhaps strong claims on the highest title), and when you do the vote to change to absolute authority, instead of just ignoring the vote, you can choose to declare independance, with perhaps everyone who choses this option all join the the same independance war (as in, they would form a sort of coalition and all become independant if you lost). Perhaps add some other benifits such as no voting or waiting to be able to change the law, choose the heir to titles, makes all current lands part of your dejure kingdom, request money like in some mods, and even some negatives like worse relations for all independant countries with lower

  16. #16
    Lt. General BBBD316's Avatar
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    I think Absolute should give me, you know, absolute power over my vassals. I approve all marriages and all heirs, also be able to transfer titles to whomever I please. But I should take a -50 hit to all vassals. At the moment there really is little incentive to go absolute and I rarely go ahead medium.

    I understand you can keep your dukes to de jure dukedoms, then the buggers marry a duchess within your kingdom and bam super dukedom! AND I HATE THAT!

    Once again I would like to if not stop my vassals' vassal from starting wars I would enjoy the ability to join in to return things to the status quo, especially when it is a member of my family that is being attacked.

  17. #17
    Duke of Middle Italy Tempestra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBBD316 View Post
    I think Absolute should give me, you know, absolute power over my vassals. I approve all marriages and all heirs, also be able to transfer titles to whomever I please.
    Historically I don't think anybody ever had that power.

  18. #18
    right now there seems to be abosolutely no point in going any higher than High and only to get Primogeniture succession. I tried going Absolute once but that cause revolts to no end, the only way I foresee Absolute authority even being feasable is if theres no dukes in your Kingdom and only counts. Counts are alot less likely to revolt against a King or Emperor than a Duke or King

  19. #19
    Sergeant plnp123's Avatar
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    The way AGOT mod implemented civil wars is very cool. And potentally very dangerous. -for the ruler-

    If you haven't played it here it is:
    if a Lord Paramount (king tier) wants to rebel against the King of the Iron Throne (emperor tier) each other LP gets the option to
    a) join the rebels
    b) support his/her liege
    c) stay neutral
    d) declare independence

    the team did what they could with the current system, but a official support would be very cool.
    Imagine all the dukes who want tob e independent as allies!
    It would be simpler and more dificult at the same time. a single enemy that is more powerful but just ibe ti defeat

  20. #20
    Colonel Beric Dondarion's Avatar
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    No, if the vassal can't rebel, then wheres the fun? "Oh look my liege is excomunicated and tried to imprison me. I'll just rebel! Oh wait, I can't, CA is too high." Boo.

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