Bohemian independence aftermath?

[hawk767]

Was going to start a Let's Play for Crusader Kings II and wanted to play someone I hadn't tried before. Having tried both Muslim, Catholic, and Orthodox kingdoms I realized I've never played as a Dutchy under the direct rule of a Kingdom or Empire.

My distaste for that everlasting grey blob that is the HRE and the usual war for independence started by Tuscany led me to try out one of the HRE's Dutchys, being Bohemia.

I jumped in game to try them before trying to record completely blind. Joined in on the Tuscany war for independence, they lost under White Peace so right after I declared independence and with the help of the Kingdom of Denmark I got independence, helped along by the death of the incapable emperor.

After I gained my little landhold bordered by some rather large powers I was at a loss as to where to go from there. My military might isn't as intimidating as Hungary's or Poland's so attacking them isn't that much of an option. I'm mostly wondering where to go from that said point. Simply bide my time, build alliances, and bolster my economy so I can afford to build up my structures within the eventual Bohemian Kingdom? I want an interesting game not just for myself but for the Let';s Play so I'd hate to get to that point and just sit stagnant until the HRE decides to declare war on me again.

Edit: Let's Play

[Dutchling]

I've seen the AI put a Bohemian pretender on the Polish throne once, you just have to wait for the pagans to weaken Poland. I don't think your wife's claims to the Polish throne pass to your sons anymore though.

[Comradebot]

Was going to start a Let's Play for Crusader Kings II and wanted to play someone I hadn't tried before. Having tried both Muslim, Catholic, and Orthodox kingdoms I realized I've never played as a Dutchy under the direct rule of a Kingdom or Empire.

My distaste for that everlasting grey blob that is the HRE and the usual war for independence started by Tuscany led me to try out one of the HRE's Dutchys, being Bohemia.

I jumped in game to try them before trying to record completely blind. Joined in on the Tuscany war for independence, they lost under White Peace so right after I declared independence and with the help of the Kingdom of Denmark I got independence, helped along by the death of the incapable emperor.

After I gained my little landhold bordered by some rather large powers I was at a loss as to where to go from there. My military might isn't as intimidating as Hungary's or Poland's so attacking them isn't that much of an option. I'm mostly wondering where to go from that said point. Simply bide my time, build alliances, and bolster my economy so I can afford to build up my structures within the eventual Bohemian Kingdom? I want an interesting game not just for myself but for the Let';s Play so I'd hate to get to that point and just sit stagnant until the HRE decides to declare war on me again.

First thing's first: Alliances, and making the HRE love you. Preferably, ally with them... the AI doesn't like to take the prestige hit for declaring war on an ally. But getting people on your side and keeping the HRE off your back is priority one. They can and will press their claims on you when they have nothing else to do. While you might be able to wait out the strong claims they got when you first gained your independence, they will ALWAYS (as obnoxious as it is), have de jure claims on each county in Bohemia.

While I wouldn't rely on the Pagans to still be around to weaken Poland, Poland is still a good place to look. They're the only other West Slavic kingdom around, so your people tend to be a little close to one another. If you can, try to inherit and merge yall's thrones. If you're going to continue to be independent from the HRE, your first step will be to get land they have no claim on. But look to Poland and Hungary for potential annexation for your new kingdom. If you leave vassal Dukes and Counts on their borders, they'll typically fabricate claims you can press for em' whenever the target country is too distracted to deal with you. But obviously that might conflict with trying to ally and inherit, so pick and choose based on the situation. There's little reason to fight a war for a single county in western Hungary if you could instead marry your eldest son to a young female Duchess that has that same county.

And when you get big enough and no longer have to hid behind allies, start looking for opportunities to strike at the HRE and chop them down block by block. Bad HRE succession? Do your part by helping some of their vassals win their independence. It'll give you a nice buffer zone if you can pull out the ones between you and the HRE, and every county and duchy they lose is less and less manpower they can muster to go slap Bohemia around.


Tell me how it goes, this is more or less the strategy I have in mind with my current game as the newly crowned King of Pomerania. I want my de jure land out of the Empire, and after that I'd be more than happy to book it.

[hawk767]

First thing's first: Alliances, and making the HRE love you. Preferably, ally with them... the AI doesn't like to take the prestige hit for declaring war on an ally. But getting people on your side and keeping the HRE off your back is priority one. They can and will press their claims on you when they have nothing else to do. While you might be able to wait out the strong claims they got when you first gained your independence, they will ALWAYS (as obnoxious as it is), have de jure claims on each county in Bohemia.

While I wouldn't rely on the Pagans to still be around to weaken Poland, Poland is still a good place to look. They're the only other West Slavic kingdom around, so your people tend to be a little close to one another. If you can, try to inherit and merge yall's thrones. If you're going to continue to be independent from the HRE, your first step will be to get land they have no claim on. But look to Poland and Hungary for potential annexation for your new kingdom. If you leave vassal Dukes and Counts on their borders, they'll typically fabricate claims you can press for em' whenever the target country is too distracted to deal with you. But obviously that might conflict with trying to ally and inherit, so pick and choose based on the situation. There's little reason to fight a war for a single county in western Hungary if you could instead marry your eldest son to a young female Duchess that has that same county.

And when you get big enough and no longer have to hid behind allies, start looking for opportunities to strike at the HRE and chop them down block by block. Bad HRE succession? Do your part by helping some of their vassals win their independence. It'll give you a nice buffer zone if you can pull out the ones between you and the HRE, and every county and duchy they lose is less and less manpower they can muster to go slap Bohemia around.


Tell me how it goes, this is more or less the strategy I have in mind with my current game as the newly crowned King of Pomerania. I want my de jure land out of the Empire, and after that I'd be more than happy to book it.

Really sound suggestion thanks. I figured to set my eyes on the two eastern powers so I'll certainly try grabbing succession through them. Should certainly make for good video content thought I'll probably pause a lot to sort everything out. I can see how one mistake in this situation could lead to outright war and ruin for Bohemia.

Good luck with your campaign as well.

[knppel]

As long as the HRE has medium ca or lower, you can inherit chunks out of it still, if there is no Polish r Hungarian Girls for your son.

[TehJumpingJawa]

How about swearing allegiance to Hungary or Poland (which ever has lower ca), and then work from within to increase your power base.
While you're working on usurping one of the crowns, marry/assassinate your way into the succession for the other crown.
It shouldn't be long before you're able to unite the two kingdoms under a single ruler.
After that, absorbing Croatia and any other weak neighbours should be easy.

After that.... either chip pieces off the HRE, or when they're showing signs of weakness try a full blown invasion.

[Fawr]

I would have tried to stay a HRE vassal for a little longer (or swear allegiance again). So long as the crown authority doesn't get too high its much easier to eat up a large power from within (where you can attack vassals and the emperor doesn't get involved). If you break away once you are larger than Poland/Hungary then things look a lot rosier.

[hawk767]

I would have tried to stay a HRE vassal for a little longer (or swear allegiance again). So long as the crown authority doesn't get too high its much easier to eat up a large power from within (where you can attack vassals and the emperor doesn't get involved). If you break away once you are larger than Poland/Hungary then things look a lot rosier.

Ah ok, I hadn't thought of that. I could still continue to grab alliances as well as set myself up for succession gain at the same time while doing this. Thanks.

[HMatsunaga54]

you could always try to kill the Kings of Hungary and Poland, If Boleslaw dies that leaves his infirm Brother who most likely won't live to have kids, and your wife, and if you Kill Salamon one of your sons will be king of Hungary.

[hawk767]

Let's Play

Here is a link to the Let's Play I've started. So far so good. Preferred to just re-post here rather than start a thread. Hate advertising my videos around forums xp

If anyone does wish to follow, I had one issue while recording in that my hdd filled up and I lost maybe 10 minutes or some of footage but nothing to serious occurred during it ^^".

[vranasm]

as someone living in Czech Republic which is successor to Kingdom of Bohemia after long reign of Habsburks over us I of course too played Duchy of Bohemia.
Some tips from me

1) Use Direct Vassals map mode, makes it best visible what you are
2) Expansion towards Austria and forming Duchy of Austria was my first steps
3) Accumulate money
4) Invade Poland

that alone should make you cca 40% levy power of HRE
declaring independence is easy at that point (I did), but maybe not so great (you are free target for Hungary and couple more AI's and of course to Kaiser)

[barnabas]

I had a similar game starting as duke of Baviera. First I gathered power from within the empire and formed the kingdom of Baviera, then I gained independence, but I ended up abandoning the game shortly after that. I think I'll also try Bohemia next time and make the destruction of HRE my objective.

[Comradebot]

Really sound suggestion thanks. I figured to set my eyes on the two eastern powers so I'll certainly try grabbing succession through them. Should certainly make for good video content thought I'll probably pause a lot to sort everything out. I can see how one mistake in this situation could lead to outright war and ruin for Bohemia.

Good luck with your campaign as well.

Thanks! Though it's been a mix of good and bad.

Good: Formed Pomerania and got back to Catholic without incident, and won a Crusade for (half of) Jersusalem.

Bad: My plot to lower HRE crown authority failed, Muslims holy warred a couple counties away from me, I was forced to give Zemgale to the Teutons, got labeled a traitor and my kind got bludgeoned in the head and died a few days later trying to stop the HRE from revoking Stettin. But hey, at least his son wasn't a traitor and the Kaiser accepted his ransom.

[nestorius]

Bohemia is in quite a strong position at the start.

Your oldest son is current heir to the kingdom of Hungary, though this is likely to change though easy to grab it.
Your wife is 2nd inline to the kingdom of Poland.

What I like to do is betroth my youngest daughter to the king of poland, assassinate his oldest son, assassinate him, and eventually inherit poland.

I wouldnt leave the HRE tbh, would stay in dow after a claim Duchy of Austria, claim the ducal title, become kingdom of Bohemia and take the last two austrian provinces. Then hopefully if you inherit poland you will remain in the HRE. Then its a question of expansion both within and without. You are protected from outside, though a little weaker, and its a really fun game.