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TheGreatSnoop

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May 15, 2011
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A while back, I dedicated myself to a full playthrough as Scotland, I was going to go from 1066 to the end, and I planned to enjoy it as much as I enjoyed it starting out, unfortunately that hasn't been the case.

The year is now 1300, and from starting out as Malcolm the third, King of Scotland in 1066, his dynasty has conquered Britain and formed the Empire of Britannia spanning from Britain to Northern Spain, and encompasing all of Norway, Sweden and Finland.

Now doing this was enjoyable enough, but now the game seems to have become stagnant at best, and at worst just no fun at all. My game consists of literally just waiting 5 minutes for the next rebellion to pop up, to hear about my 'tales of misdeeds' from Dukes and Earls all too eager to spend the rest of their lives in a cell, and then rounding up the Empire's troops to put them down. This process then continues...and continues...and continues...

I know what you're going to say, that this is a result of mismanagement of my Empire, but I don't see how that can be the case? I've always made sure to have all my Dukes hold their proper counties in their Duchy, I've always tried to populate conquered provinces with lords of my nationality (culture), but none of this does anything, it's simply remove one inexplicably angry lord, replace him with an earl, then wait for that earl to become inexplicably angry and repeat the process. :confused:

The only thing I can guess that might be a problem is the fact I hold all the titles of King within my Empire, by this I mean that, while I am Emperor of Brittania, I am also King of Scotland, England, Ireland, Wales, Norway, Sweden, and Brittany. I've never considered handing out titles of King, however, because I'd imagine that would just make that character want to revolt against me even more. At least I've found that the more power you give someone, the less likely they are to thank you, and the more likely they are to revolt, or at least their descendants will.

Does anyone else find the latter half of the game become simply a session of putting down continuous rebellions? I've reached a point where that's all it is in my campaign, and I can't focus on doing anything else, because as soon as I'd start a new process of conquest or intrigue, I'd have to abandon it to put down the constant revolts.
 
I have to say that to an extent I agree with you. My last game as Britannia it was my goal to conquer the de jure imperial territories and then just meddle in European affairs by joining wars etc, but not continuing to expand, but after a while there are not enough events in vanilla (though I have to say I'm loving the Prince and Thane mod). Some notes on what you are saying:

1. After your first king title, the others are going to give the -25 penalty to vassals wanting the title. Ex. Assuming Scotland is your main king tier title, the Duke of Glouchester is going to have -25 wants kingdom of England title. Peronally, I would just destroy the extras as they aren't necessary. Plus if you are running elective you'll get the extra minus from too many elector titles held. Other people would disagree since you are losing out on prestige, but to everyone their own.

2. Noble vassal are major pain in the asses - I would mix in some priest or burgher vassals. In my Britannita game, all the coastal duchies are doges and interior (or mostly interior) duchies are prince archbishops and it is way way less of a headache. Vassals don't rebel at all pretty much, my elective heir is always the way I want I get mega-cash. I think here it depends on how much you want to RP the game as this is kind of unrealistic, but it makes managing your home territory way less irritating. My "plan" was to have my core territory setup this way and then colonies as noble vassals and if the borders of those territories get messed from marriages etc, I wont sweat it. What happens in colonial France stays in colonial France! A three way mix between nobles, priests and burghers might suite you, but when I tried that I was like these dukes suck, let's just get rid of them completely!
 
Possibilities that i just thought of:

1. Hand out kingdoms to other dynasty members. Marry them/alliance or let them become independent.
2. Hand out these kingdoms, save and reload as one of these kingdoms.
3. Load the game as a little kingdom you were going to conquer and see if you can beat your former dynasty.
 
CK2 gets boring once you're established, I agree. There's simply not enough to do once you're an emperor or a multiple king, besides world conquest, and that is super annoyingly cumbersome.

They'd either need to make it so that the bigger your realm, the harder it is to manage (the distance penalty is the only effect right now), or add more content. Though I don't see what would keep me engaged. Ck2 could use a game mode where you pick 1 adversary who grows as fast as you do (depending on game difficulty), and your ultimate goal is to beat him. He'd probably be muslim if you're catholic, and vice versa. Aka ultimate showdown you vs Fatimids or you vs ERE or you vs Khanate.
 
The way I see it, the developers could fix the late game becoming stagnant and tiresome, simply by doing these things...

1. Give Emperors a substantial amount of 'respect' in the form of boosted relations with at least lower tier vassals. Being an Emperor should demand respect.

2. If the latter were not to be done, then Emperors or Empresses should be given more poweres/events in which to exert their power over their vassals.

As it stands, being Emperor doesn't seem to do a whole lot, and there doesn't seem to be much of an incentive to become one, since all it apparently does is make governing your lands even harder.
 
Probably bigger standard relationship hits for dukes/counts far away. If you're the british emperor, and you have dukes in Spain, these dukes should relatively easily band together and revolt against your will, similarly to what happened in the colonies in later ages.

The reason is that you won't see these dukes/counts as often, and they will have little in common with you, at least after a few generations.

It should also be easier for revolts to include other dukes, so a small hassle in a county in spain could quickly become a rebellous spaniard 'kingdom-without-a-king'.

I think distance should be more of a problem in general, I think it's weird that the duke of Holland could easily ask for marriage in Greece, and more often than not they accept too. While marriage was a strong thing, it should be a little more localized - You should be able to marry Frankish and German girls, sure, but no further than that, or at least very unlikely.
 
As Emperor I tend to hand out one or more king titles to my heir, who then basically controls everything outside my de jure. As a King I hand my heir several duchies. This has three effects, because your son will then be the one handling the rebellions (and he should be more than capable of doing so), he gathers prestige so he gets the prestige bonus upon taking over, and he is your heir and loves you, I don't think I have ever seen my heir rebel against me.
Also in case you are overthrown, you know that your greatly reduced demesne will be merged with the powerful mega-king/mega-duke, giving you a chance to reclaim what was lost.
 
I'm playing since 1066 as the Babenburg,Dukes of Austria.(1 county Dukes)It took me about 150 years to become Kaiser.That was fun,I have lost the crown several times since.Its 1340 and I'm just trying to line everything up to change to Primogeniture.After I became Kaiser it becomes a boring Click-fest.The Shia Caliphate declared Jihad on me.......I laughed raised, 300,000 germans and spent a summer in Syria.The only thing that keeps me going is that I now want to see this to the end.Since I have had to tend to my Kingdom/Empire, I don't have a Hi-score.(If I quit now it will only be about 25k or so)I want to post one to another thread on the forum.
 
A lot of the time it is more like the latter 75% of the game that becomes boring.

One way or another you grow to a point where there aren't too many realistic threats anymore.

And as you get bigger and bigger, raising levies becomes more and more painful and tedious. At some point you realize.. I haven't really done anything interesting in the last half hour and I'm really sick of raising, assembling and disbanding levies to kill rebels.

Rally points to make assembling and raising levies easier would help, but obviously the core problem goes a bit deeper than that.
 
yes it does

I usually have elective monarchy when i become an emperor so when am tired of it i just let someone of my kings or dukes become emperor and i just break away from the empire and go my own way, still after like 1200-1250 it gets boring, and to get to the end of the game becomes work and not game.
 
It gets boring because there's nothing to do in the game other than blob all over the map. When you're not at war, the only thing you're doing is clicking pop-ups or getting ready to blob some more. This is a problem in every recent PI game except for Victoria II. Victoria II had a strong emphasis on domestic gameplay, so you can stay interested without blobbing at all, if you want to.
 
Even if they made playing huge empires more interesting, I still wouldn't want to mess with it. There's just too much micromanagement and it is too easy.

I started as the Count of Anhalt, and had a real blast becoming the King of Sweden. Just as I was preparing to grab Denmark's title out from under him, I became the Kaiser. I spent 7 hours fighting a 4-hour-long war to hold onto the HRE. That was pretty interesting, but handling those armies was a real pain. Especially once I realized that I had to manually go find small armies to dismiss and call up again to get reinforcements.

Anyway, the point is that it was fun, but it took way too long. So I went ahead and reloaded and started over with what was then the small Duchy of Poitou (de Borgogne). Once again the game became VERY interesting. I had to fight off an existential threat from a relative in Aquitane. Even managing to add a single county was fun. My plan is to actually do some Crusading and become a King in Spain. Also, in the meantime I got to keep following the exploits of Kaiser von Goseck and the disappearing Salian line. I plan to just keep playing that way until the end. If the de Borgogne family gets to big, I'll just pick a new one in a completely different part of the world.

And maybe someday I'll start actually playing a SOI game ...
 
For me the majority of the fun gets sapped by how long it takes to assemble armies once you reach that repetition stage. The thing that kept me going after that point in the TW series is that its pretty easy to assemble and send out your large armies in that game. Where as in CKII I spend the most time paused selecting armies, group, embark, select, group, embark. Even with short cut keys added in it still takes forever. If they would add in a "group all" and "embark all" buttons when you group select I could finish a game.
 
Get CK2+, it's not so easy to sit back and say "I'm just gonna cruise through 150 years". All your peace time really is preparing for the next war to be able to win it before it begins.
 
It gets boring because there's nothing to do in the game other than blob all over the map. When you're not at war, the only thing you're doing is clicking pop-ups or getting ready to blob some more.

Don't forget the part where you spend hours and hours checking people's profiles on okcupid fighting the interface to find the right marriages for your people.
 
It becomes boring because you're too powerful, and you want to make emperors even more powerful? Whats the point?

My point is that I don't feel powerful as an Emperor. I have all this land, but because it simply means that I have rebellions every 3 minutes, it ends up making you wish for small kingdom again. I'm saying there has to be an incentive towards forming an empire, giving the Emperor more power to control his empire would be a way to make it more enjoyable
 
My point is that I don't feel powerful as an Emperor. I have all this land, but because it simply means that I have rebellions every 3 minutes, it ends up making you wish for small kingdom again. I'm saying there has to be an incentive towards forming an empire, giving the Emperor more power to control his empire would be a way to make it more enjoyable

Why should ruling an empire be enjoyable ? Its not centralised, it has bad traffic, messengers need time and vassals actually rule. Welcome to medieval times.
There could be more flavour added and probably will be.
 
My point is that I don't feel powerful as an Emperor. I have all this land, but because it simply means that I have rebellions every 3 minutes, it ends up making you wish for small kingdom again. I'm saying there has to be an incentive towards forming an empire, giving the Emperor more power to control his empire would be a way to make it more enjoyable

I cant really relate because when I was an emperor, I never had rebellions except due to excessive distance