No physical release

[teomat]

Protip: That was not the smartest thing to say.

Is talking about having pirated something that you later bought against the rules? I only skimmed over them but it seems that it isn't.

Edit: After having another look I realized that the posts might be tiptoeing on the line of what is and isn't allowed.

[fenwayb]

Is talking about having pirated something that you later bought against the rules? I only skimmed over them but it seems that it isn't.

Edit: After having another look I realized that the posts might be tiptoeing on the line of what is and isn't allowed.

You don't get to decide when you pay for a game. You pay for it when you get it, or you don't get it, otherwise you're still pirating.

Agree. I need Johan's approval of my purchasing habits so that I can stop crying on my pillow at night.

Sarcasm is fun, isn't it? It's not about approval of purchasing habits as much as it is not alienating your fans.

[FOARP]

Sarcasm is fun, isn't it? It's not about approval of purchasing habits as much as it is not alienating your fans.

Or way, way over-reacting. Basically, there's very few people walking around today who have not engaged in copyright infringement at least once (watched a video on Youtube? Used a NoCD crack? photo-copied a text-book? Cut/pasted a photo? Played a mod based on a book/film/tv series - and yes this includes the Game Of Thrones mod - ? Copied an LP onto tape back in the 80's? All of these can be copyright infringement). This is the Paradox forum, so very obviously copying, particularly of their games, is stigmatised here, and grounds for banishment from the forum, however the use of the word 'piracy' (as in, copying a game without permission of the rights-holder) does not imply that everyone concerned has infringed copyright in that instance.

During my days as a law student in London I went to a talk by Bill Patry, chief IP counsel for Google. His talk was on the moral panic surrounding copyright infringement and how, actually, pretty much everyone is a "pirate", according to the definition in common use, because some form of copyright infringement is virtually unavoidable in modern life. I think, whilst still deprecating those who play Paradox's games without Paradox's permission, we should bear this in mind. It is not correct that you are so sensitive over mere use of the word 'piracy', at least not if it is used to describe something other than forcefully boarding ship with a crew of salty sea-dogs.

[alanschu]

but he isn't arguing that Paradox should make boxed copies; He, and I, were simply saying that it's not really fair to essentially tell people that if they bought the game on sale, then they're actually worse than pirates (which what "you might as well pirate it" implies).

Any person that thinks Johan is saying that buying a game on sale makes them worse than pirates is frankly misinterpreting what he said and straight up being over sensitive about it.


As for why I made my post:

"HelloGoodSir" stated straight up that Paradox should release boxed copies of the game for 10 pounds a few months after release. If it costs 15 pounds to make those boxed copies, then it's a bad business decision for Paradox to build make them since at best they can count on losing 5 pounds per copy sold. Alternatively, if they made NO boxed copies and those people just pirated the game instead, Paradox would incur less of a financial loss.

Buuuut, the guy that I responded to, "Me_" then went off the handle stating this gem of a post:

Wow, you serious? You really don't understand the concept of cutting loses?

E.g. game costed 15 to produce - someone buys it for 10 - producer makes 10 (let's assume buying directly from the producer) so a loss of 5 (15-10=5). Someone downloads a game - producer gets 0, so a loss of 15. Loss of 15 eorse than lossa of 5.

Or are you just accusing people buying at a bargain of theft?

Clearly he's making the assumption that the boxed copy is being made regardless. So either he grossly misinterpreted what Johan was saying (and the post he was responding to). So frankly, I disagree with your assertion that "he isn't arguing that Paradox should make boxed copies" since he implicitly states that Paradox is, as that is the only way that Paradox can get a loss of $15 by someone pirating the game instead of purchasing already built copies. At best, I can give "Me_" benefit of the doubt and assume he just did a poor job of following the discussion and made an incorrect assumption. Either way, his responses were wholly unnecessary as they weren't representative of the actual discussion going on.

As for anyone that thinks that Johan is saying any of those people are worse than pirates, that's just pure fantasy and people are putting words into his mouth. He never said anything of the sort.

[Don_Quigleone]

As for anyone that thinks that Johan is saying any of those people are worse than pirates, that's just pure fantasy and people are putting words into his mouth. He never said anything of the sort.

I think he meant that from Paradox's point of view (money flow wise), that it's worse then piracy, but not that the people who buy at such bargain prices were worse then pirates.

[InnocentIII]

I used to worry about not having a boxed copy, and I still like maps and manuals. However, it's so convenient to go to GG when I get a new computer and need to switch stuff over, or have to reinstall for any other reason. I'm sure Steam is just as easy. Now, I like not having to search for boxes and disks.

[Mikebloke]

I used to worry about not having a boxed copy, and I still like maps and manuals. However, it's so convenient to go to GG when I get a new computer and need to switch stuff over, or have to reinstall for any other reason. I'm sure Steam is just as easy. Now, I like not having to search for boxes and disks.

This, and its funny how many games I've bought twice just to have a digital copy that is up to date rather than hunting down patches on dodgy download sites.

As a consumer, seeing Paradox games selling for £20-30 5 years after release on a shelf, compared to £10-20 after only a years release digitally, for a poor man that doesn't make much money, its an easy choice even if it comes without the joy of a physical copy.

[the_legion]

As long as it's Gamersgate I'm fine with digital distribution.

[Alerias]

The difference between physical and digital is insane.. With all bribes you need for shelfspace, and all return-guarantees, if you dont sell 90% of the printed for full price its a loss.

And even then, you get like 25% of what a digital copy would cost.

We sell similar amount today as 5 years ago, but now we can afford 18 month cycles and QA.

Today physical revenue is like less than a percent, so it just doesnt make financial sense.

Well okay, i guess these numbers convinced me. Helps me realize how much a boon digital distro has been for developers, too...