It would be very nice to have realistic populations, and the population of each province, not just from the capital!
It would be very nice to have realistic populations, and the population of each province, not just from the capital!
Sadly there does not exist enough records for the time-periods.
Realistic population doesn't have to mean population based on historical data - after all once you unpause the game you leave history behind. For one thing in EU3 CoT grew to 1 million way too fast and colonies once over 1000 population would end up with the same growth as provinces in Europe - having a wider set of modifiers affecting population growth would be a good first step.Originally Posted by Balor
Or do you mean population no longer exists in EU4?
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A very vague guess is realistic if that's the best you can do.
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If there's any doubt about the meaning of my posts in a serious discussion then I think both sides are equally wrong because then I get to claim the moral highground.
Or we can just simply admit defeat and focus our time on other things.
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If so, there shouldn't be a population figure at all, I think. Just let the province manpower and base tax be what represents population. The city population figure in EU3 was just confusing.
They'll figure it out
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I quite like there being a population value for flavour, and it is certainly important for major cities to have some kind of growth mechanism to track the increases in tax and manpower generated. Creating a new more abstract system to replace an absolute population figure would not seem to be a good use of developers time. Maybe just specify that it's the city population? Although not irrelevant, I don't think the population of provinces is anywhere near as important to EU games than for exmaple Victoria.
It doesn't have to be super historically accurate. I just hope that if population is in, it will be a little less pointless.
Also, I hope there will be a way to make a province uninhabited again.
Could we perhaps see more modifiers with regards to population increase and decrease? Constantinople was considered the gem of Europe for centuries, but by the start of the game it should be a shell of itself. The Turks upon conquering it made it their capital, bringing in lots of people, rejuvenating it ushering in a new era of prosperity. Could we see country declines reflected more often in cities/capitals? I've always wanted colonies to have modifiers representing growth after the initial colonization representing people flocking there from the motherland. Simple things like this could add a level of depth without requiring tootoo much time on your parts as the developers. It feels like it would be a better compromise between the people who'd like POPs or more realistic populations and the abstract representation currently had.
Realistic representations of population is more Victoria II's hat. I say a decent abstraction to represent different population/prosperity levels in the vein of Crusader Kings II would be more than adequate for EUIV
How do you handle colonization without any population value ?
There may be a separate "colony level" value for colonial provinces. Just speculating, though.
Sit now there, and look out upon the lands where evil and despair shall come to those whom thou allied. Thou hast dared to mock me, and to question the power of France, master of the fates of Europe. Therefore with my explorers thou shalt see, and with my spies thou shalt hear; and never shall thou be released from vassalage until all is fulfilled unto its bitter end.
No, you can't admit defeat.
Is totally UNREALISTIC, no wait, totally ILLOGICAL to have a 999.999 population province with less production and manpower than a 50.000 one.
Production and Manpower should be tied to population.
Famines and Plagues should control/affect population.
If I might be a bit haughty, I think there's a very easy solution to the issue that does not involve giving up or sacrificing realism: Just don't represent population in actual numbers. Use adjectives: sparsely populated, moderately populated, densely populated, etc. etc. And please, have these mean something. We don't need to know the exact population of Paris or Baghdad at any given point, but knowing which areas are heavily populated and which are not, and which are growing and which are not, would be quite useful.
I think like CK2 they might ditch the whole notion of trying to represent population and replace it with other indicators.
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This could work. I think we do have a fairly good idea of which places were densely populated at the time.
I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong here. That assumes all provinces and social systems are equally productive.
Look at the UK vs their colonies in India in the Victorian period. A UK 50,000 man province easily outproduced a 1,000,000 man province in India. And provided more men to the British armed forces. If history shows us anything it's this. Otherwise China and India would have dominated the world for the whole of history.
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I was hoping that population would be very important. Making a nation successful by means of diplomacy, trade, production, liberties/freedoms/rights, stability, these are all more or less making use of what you have instead of taking from others.
Sure USA took an entire continent from indians (sorry guys), but afterwards its pretty much making the most of what you have. Our population exploded due to immigration, and people immigrated because the nation was an attractive place to be, it promised many great things, they heard it was a great place to live.
So without taking population into account, how will pdox address the differences between a country like Canada/Sweden (I was going to say USA but we get involved in EVERY war so its no longer a fair example) as opposed to some god-forsaken country in africa that's ruled by a warlord? That warlord's country might be profitable as hell due to natural resources and his people may be too afraid of him to revolt, but people will only ever want to leave his horrible country. Then you have Canada/Sweden which are amazing places to live and they have great stability, they are peaceful for the most part, people want to move there so much that they have trouble with people visiting and not wanting to leave.
In the USA we have south americans that want to hop the border and live here, because theres promise of a better life than in mexico.
I cant be the only one that wants to play EU4 by creating a land where people would actually want to live? The surrounding nations are oppressive and have high taxes? Well come live in Hokiland!
Sounds like you want Victoria in the EU era
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