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The game is based around your dinasty and all (alot!) of random things that may happen. That is the challenge and it is up to you to decide if you want it. It is not so much about conquering, although it can be played like that.

If you ever follow some random AI king/emperor and their dinasty will you see they are also pretty screwed over all the time just like the player.

People that love the game simply embrace the challenge of managing somewhat random events and trying to be clever enough to setup enough contingency plans to see their goals achieve despite.
 
CK2 has too much random crap. Actions and events should happen due to things the player did earlier, but instead, Paradox made stuff mostly random. Both ways are challenging, but the first is challenging in a good way, while the other isn't.

So you revoked a county? It should have repercussions for 100 years. Distant members of the disowned dynasty should be plotting your and your descendents' demise for generations, always coming out of the woodwork when they have a chance to hurt you.

So you divorced a wife? Same stuff. You took a county from a duke? His grudge should keep living in the hearts of his children.

So you granted a duchy to a courtier? He and his descendents could be loyal until 1453 and beyond.

Does that happen in CK2? No. Instead, there's the roll of the dice, and thats that.
 
CK2 has too much random crap. Actions and events should happen due to things the player did earlier, but instead, Paradox made stuff mostly random. Both ways are challenging, but the first is challenging in a good way, while the other isn't.

So you revoked a county? It should have repercussions for 100 years. Distant members of the disowned dynasty should be plotting your and your descendents' demise for generations, always coming out of the woodwork when they have a chance to hurt you.

So you divorced a wife? Same stuff. You took a county from a duke? His grudge should keep living in the hearts of his children.

So you granted a duchy to a courtier? He and his descendents could be loyal until 1453 and beyond.

Does that happen in CK2? No. Instead, there's the roll of the dice, and thats that.

Doesnt it depend on claims and traits (amibtious f.e.) ? It does afaik. No dice there.
 
What depends? Grudges aren't claims. There is no statutory limitation on hate. Good deeds coming back to help you, bad deeds coming back to haunt you, where is that in CK2?

No, but claims and attributes/traits (ambitious, wroth) might cause any repercussion.

Besides that, neither i nor people in the middle ages all do/did play the blood feud game. Its represented by aforementioned.
I didnt dig the files as much as with CK1 though.

Nevertheless, the system of relations still can improve, so i guess we meet there. :)
 
No, but claims and attributes/traits (ambitious, wroth) might cause any repercussion.

Besides that, neither i nor people in the middle ages all do/did play the blood feud game. Its represented by aforementioned.
I didnt dig the files as much as with CK1 though.

Nevertheless, the system of relations still can improve, so i guess we meet there. :)

Well it's kinda undirected and lazy. Sure, I behead a traitor in anger, and I get the wroth trait. How does it affect me and others? In an undirected way. I get a general opinion malus. But wouldnt I get a benefit in relation with the enemies of that dead traitor? And my son never has to cope with anything I have done.
 
Well it's kinda undirected and lazy. Sure, I behead a traitor in anger, and I get the wroth trait. How does it affect me and others? In an undirected way. I get a general opinion malus. But wouldnt I get a benefit in relation with the enemies of that dead traitor? And my son never has to cope with anything I have done.

Im not sure id trust my heir to not screw this up tbh, and then when you possess him, wouldnt it seem like a random affect when 'revenge' is taken?
 
............ But wouldnt I get a benefit in relation with the enemies of that dead traitor? And my son never has to cope with anything I have done.

No you wouldnt, as killing some noble, especially landed ones outside of battle, was regarded as tyrannical anyway.
If you'd be so dishonorous, vassals who hated this guy would be still be upset by your wroth and afraid you could turn on them as such as well.
 
To the OP: What you originally posted wasn't problems with the game mechanics... It's more of you being a sore loser. People get screwed over all the time, like having your genius son get maimed and die, leaving your poor content and craven son to inherit. This is can be fun or frustrating.

But here are a few things that I think PI has so far improved, made worse, and/or could use improvement.

-Crusades: Originally, Crusades in the game was a big mess. People had to individually declare a crusade on the target, none of which were allies so all the armies were scattered and weren't united. The Fatimids could easily pick off each Army individually because they weren't considered in a joint stack. Also, the Crusade will never end until someone wins. Now, Crusades is a joint effort led by the Pope and acts as a single war, making it challenging for the defender. But there are still some problems with crusades. For example, whoever wins the crusade gets the Kingdom. A Frank became King of Jerusalem in history, but instead we'll see France plastered over the Levant. What could be improved are emerging states, such as adventuring sons like the d'Hautevilles in Sicily.

-De Jure Drift: Pretty neat feature if you ask me. But it won't work if you hold a Kingdom title corresponding to the de jure duchies you want to drift. You have to destroy it to make it happen. Would be nicer if you could drift everything under your main title. Another problem is drifting unconnected pieces of land. Usually I see Bohemia in Italy due to a marriage. Drifting should be limited to adjacent duchies. But the timer can still move on, but will stall being incorporated to the Kingdom until a newly acquired duchy connects the base Kingdom and prospective duchy.

-Vassal-Liege Contract: Not talking about how the King of England should also be the vassal of the King of France should he have French lands. No, I'm talking about titles and their lieges. Below Medium Crown Authority, vassals are allowed to make war on other vassals. As a liege, I don't like this, but I think it's fair. But what I don't find fair is the Duke of Anjou declaring war on the Count of Vermandois, my vassal tied to my title as Duke of Valois. If you click on Vermandois, the province, you will see that it goes from Vermandois > Valois > France. This means Vermandois is a vassal of the Duke of Valois, while the Duke of Anjou is a vassal of the King of France, both of which are me. If Anjou wants to declare war on Vermandois, then that should be a traitorous act, because he's declaring war on me. Why is this so important? Well, if you look at the HRE, the Emperor is always screwed. Duke of Bavaria always spent his time defending his Counts from rival Dukes. But now that he is elected Kaiser, all of those Counts are fair game, he can't do anything about it even if he also holds the Duke of Bavaria. And then, his successor does not succeed him as Kaiser. He loses those vassals. Some more on vassal-liege contract, you also lose Counts as vassals if you are elected as Kaiser. Let's say you are Duke of Bavaria, and you have the Count of Tyrol as a vassal. You do not hold the Duchy of Tyrol. You get elected as Kaiser. You don't get elected again. The Count of Tyrol is no longer your vassal. See the problem here?

-War: The best way to make the war system most ideal to me is to scrap it and incorporate a Campaign mechanic. Instead of ordering around armies and moving them province by province, the war would act independently. What you do is you select someone to organize the campaign, probably you or the marshal, and you set the funds to run it. This is probably a fixed expense, the more you spend, the more effective the armies will be (the fund goes to numbers and logistics, all of these abstract things.) Martial can effect how much you spend, good Martial would require less money to achieve the same effectiveness with someone with lower Martial. You can alter the funds at any time. With this campaign system, you don't have to worry about moving big numbers across the map. And it could allow much smaller Kingdoms to take on bigger guys. This way, Abyssinia could actually survive. Egypt would have to invest so much money to even get troops across the desert, most of which would desert. Once the Egyptians arrive, the Ethiopians would have already assembled their levies (Do you guys have any idea how long it takes to do that in Abyssinia? I think this is the reason why the Ethiopians always die.) It would probably be complicated in math, but very simple on screen. You select someone with great martial to run the campaign, he might make good choices, he might make bad choices. There might be events during the campaign, but I think the player should have less control on the campaign running (i.e, move troops here, plant them here, stack them up, etc.) and just have the AI do its math. The player is smart, and with this campaign system that I believe would never be implemented because it's just so different and requires a lot of overhauling that isn't necessary, I think the AI and player would be on equal terms in warfare.
 
I wouldn't take personal command out of Warfare, The only way to beat Egypt or the HRE sometimes is to micromanage armies to stack break and so forth, Trusting that to the AI would just be ridiculously frustrating (as seen in crusades to Jerusalem the Pope is content to keep sieging while the Egyptians start forming a doomstacks right next to him). I would like to see more Emphasis on Battles themselves like More commander traits, the Ability to Entrench armies for a defense/moral/supply limit boost would be nice and selectable tactics for larger armies, tell them to take prisoners, burn and pillage everything they come across focus on supplying themselves, that sort of thing.
 
Good example:

My character has been leading troops for 4 (!) years nonstop because my liege raised my troops. After 4 yearrs, I get an event that makes me craven. What the heck? "Stressed" I could understand. "Depressed", maybe. But craven? That was just a roll of a dice, not something according to my previous actions.

This is what plagues CK2. Randomness <> immerse gameplay. Also, randomness <> challenge.
 
I wouldn't take personal command out of Warfare, The only way to beat Egypt or the HRE sometimes is to micromanage armies to stack break and so forth, Trusting that to the AI would just be ridiculously frustrating (as seen in crusades to Jerusalem the Pope is content to keep sieging while the Egyptians start forming a doomstacks right next to him). I would like to see more Emphasis on Battles themselves like More commander traits, the Ability to Entrench armies for a defense/moral/supply limit boost would be nice and selectable tactics for larger armies, tell them to take prisoners, burn and pillage everything they come across focus on supplying themselves, that sort of thing.

Sorry, I wasn't clear what I meant about taking personal command out of Warfare. What I meant is that all of those chesspieces on the map would be gone, you'd really only see a warscore (determined by the ridiculous math underneath it all) and some events popping up on the progress of the war. But yea, having the AI taking over the current system... that would be terrible.
 
Imo and this is an opinion after playing the game for only a few hours - (after literally 100's of hours in HOI3 and EU3) the biggest problem this game IS the fact that its random. Because it really is random with no recourse to your actions or anything you do.

The problem isn't the randomness itself. Its the fact that save/reload works to fix away all the results you do not like. Yeah 1st time you do it - it feels like cheating, but then the transition from "cheating" to doing it constantly to fix away all the things you do not like is a very swift one for some (and these days for myself too - I'm getting too old to put up with bullshit AI can do to hinder me). You could be a godlike commander always leading your troops in battle only to get cowardly trait for... erm well yeah for just being alive I suspect? Don't like assassination result? Reload try again etc etc. Basically its more of a bad game design than anything else.

PLENTY of good things in the game. Could have been the best game ever for my mind set. But the fact that its really just random with your actions carrying 0 meaning is just shit. You still win (because its kinda easy) and you don't even have to save-load for it (cos its really easy) but the underlying mechanics are just bad. Also its really easy did I mention that? EU3 at least worked hard at stopping you from expanding this just throws pseudo random events at you which make it simpler to conquer all instead of diplomatically take-over... so you... conquer all... :|

Conversely most games these days (coded by anyone BUT paradox) make allowances for this kind of cheating. Paradox obviously never does.
 
necro'ing bad. bad Alucard! :p congrats on first post though.
 
Imo and this is an opinion after playing the game for only a few hours - (after literally 100's of hours in HOI3 and EU3) the biggest problem this game IS the fact that its random. Because it really is random with no recourse to your actions or anything you do.

The problem isn't the randomness itself. Its the fact that save/reload works to fix away all the results you do not like. Yeah 1st time you do it - it feels like cheating, but then the transition from "cheating" to doing it constantly to fix away all the things you do not like is a very swift one for some (and these days for myself too - I'm getting too old to put up with bullshit AI can do to hinder me). You could be a godlike commander always leading your troops in battle only to get cowardly trait for... erm well yeah for just being alive I suspect? Don't like assassination result? Reload try again etc etc. Basically its more of a bad game design than anything else.

PLENTY of good things in the game. Could have been the best game ever for my mind set. But the fact that its really just random with your actions carrying 0 meaning is just shit. You still win (because its kinda easy) and you don't even have to save-load for it (cos its really easy) but the underlying mechanics are just bad. Also its really easy did I mention that? EU3 at least worked hard at stopping you from expanding this just throws pseudo random events at you which make it simpler to conquer all instead of diplomatically take-over... so you... conquer all... :|

Conversely most games these days (coded by anyone BUT paradox) make allowances for this kind of cheating. Paradox obviously never does.
Brains!!
 
Meh, he only necro'd it from a couple of weeks ago. Hardly the worst offense.

Anyway, I think you'll find that as you play more you begin to appreciate the randomness. When everything goes your way, the game gets boring. Your actions do have meaning, but just as in the real world, seemingly random things happen to frustrate your plans. That just means that you have to adjust your plans. So what if your leader becomes craven? You aren't controlling the battle. Maybe the troops saw their liege back away from a fight during the battle? It could happen. Just go with it. It's hardly the worst thing in the world. It just means that you are going to have to adjust what you were doing.

But, complaining about random events and that the game makes it easy for you to avoid them by save scumming doesn't make a lot of sense. There are easier ways to cheat, by the way. Most of the people who have played this game for hundreds of hours secretly like it when the game does something to get in our way. We have all conquered the world. Some many times and in several different ways. That's easy. The fun to be had is when the game randomly makes it a challenge.
 
Meh, he only necro'd it from a couple of weeks ago. Hardly the worst offense.

Anyway, I think you'll find that as you play more you begin to appreciate the randomness. When everything goes your way, the game gets boring. Your actions do have meaning, but just as in the real world, seemingly random things happen to frustrate your plans. That just means that you have to adjust your plans. So what if your leader becomes craven? You aren't controlling the battle. Maybe the troops saw their liege back away from a fight during the battle? It could happen. Just go with it. It's hardly the worst thing in the world. It just means that you are going to have to adjust what you were doing.

But, complaining about random events and that the game makes it easy for you to avoid them by save scumming doesn't make a lot of sense. There are easier ways to cheat, by the way. Most of the people who have played this game for hundreds of hours secretly like it when the game does something to get in our way. We have all conquered the world. Some many times and in several different ways. That's easy. The fun to be had is when the game randomly makes it a challenge.
Look at the year :D.