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Thread: Advantages / Disadvantages of Religious Tolerance?

  1. #1
    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Advantages / Disadvantages of Religious Tolerance?

    Are there only advantages and no disadvantages with a high Religious Tolerance to Heretics and Heathens?

    I'm looking into this in more detail, and have always thought that having a low Religious Tolerance had at least some advantages...

    But no?!?

    (Same question applies for accepted cultures: are there any disadvantages whatsoever to have another culture as an Accepted Culture?=
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  2. #2
    I don't think there is any disadvantage, per say, but usually increasing your tolerance of heretics and heathens has other, negative, attributes attached to it (less papal influence, less tolerance of the true faith, etc.).

  3. #3
    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Thanks for feedback, Slym!

    Too bad. My opinion is that all settings should have its pros as well as cons, so that the player has to make active choices on how to form his/her country.

    But at least it can be modded....

    Anyone else having thoughts?
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  4. #4
    Temporary Chosen One DanubianCossak's Avatar
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    Well, i simply dont see any advantage of being tolerant (ingame XD), if for no other reason then because theres a chance you might get religious rebels that can spread their religion around. Further more, i believe in vanilla you get some rr reduction from tolerating you own religion, so thats another reason to convert.

    As fro how it should work, well, IMO, there could be some advantages to being tolerant of religious minorities, like income bonus, manpower bonus and so on, however, the country could never be narrowminded, and it could never be not-dencentralized, as narrowminded policies and centralized government would be pretty much a complete opposite of a society that tolerates differences.
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  5. #5
    Scripter Paradox Dev Team Trin Tragula's Avatar
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    In my mod apart from income being greater and RR being lower from tolerated religions I've tied religious tolerance to conversion chances, with tolerant countries being much less likely to convert provinces on demand (it might still happen via events) than intolerant ones.
    I've also put religious tolerance effects into some of the domestic sliders (decentralization and narrowmindedness for instance).

    Haven't touched upon it myself but likewise accepted cultures could be made harder to convert to you own and possibly accepted cultures should also be able to spread into adjacent non-accepted culture provinces that you control (IE: as france you'd be spreading burgundian culture into the HRE rather than cosmopolitaine).

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    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trin Tragula View Post
    In my mod apart from income being greater and RR being lower from tolerated religions I've tied religious tolerance to conversion chances, with tolerant countries being much less likely to convert provinces on demand (it might still happen via events) than intolerant ones.
    I've also put religious tolerance effects into some of the domestic sliders (decentralization and narrowmindedness for instance).

    Haven't touched upon it myself but likewise accepted cultures could be made harder to convert to you own and possibly accepted cultures should also be able to spread into adjacent non-accepted culture provinces that you control (IE: as france you'd be spreading burgundian culture into the HRE rather than cosmopolitaine).
    Excellent, exactly what I am after! Could I use that work of yours? Conversion chance as well as sliders. Which files did you change for conversion chance, and how?

    Many thanks, Trin!
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  7. #7
    MEIOU and Taxes lukew's Avatar
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    There shouldn't be a downside to tolerance. The point is it's hard to get, like stability or prestige, the downside is you need ideas and decisions to get it. In my mod, we placed a greater emphasis on tolerance. We greatly reduced the amount of missionaries so it's impossible to convert everything very quickly - so you have to be more tolerant to avoid mass uprisings.
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    Primus Inter Pares AKronblad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanubianCossak View Post
    Well, i simply dont see any advantage of being tolerant (ingame XD), if for no other reason then because theres a chance you might get religious rebels that can spread their religion around. Further more, i believe in vanilla you get some rr reduction from tolerating you own religion, so thats another reason to convert.

    As fro how it should work, well, IMO, there could be some advantages to being tolerant of religious minorities, like income bonus, manpower bonus and so on, however, the country could never be narrowminded, and it could never be not-dencentralized, as narrowminded policies and centralized government would be pretty much a complete opposite of a society that tolerates differences.
    Thanks for input, Danubian! But I always thought INtolerance increased RR for provinces with heathen or heretic religions?
    Last edited by AKronblad; 11-08-2012 at 14:59.
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  9. #9
    Scripter Paradox Dev Team Trin Tragula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukew View Post
    There shouldn't be a downside to tolerance. The point is it's hard to get, like stability or prestige, the downside is you need ideas and decisions to get it. In my mod, we placed a greater emphasis on tolerance. We greatly reduced the amount of missionaries so it's impossible to convert everything very quickly - so you have to be more tolerant to avoid mass uprisings.
    That's a different way of going about it and it's probably paradox intention in the base game

    In order for intolerance bonuses to conversions to be meaningful base conversion chances would also have to be a lot lower than vanilla. I have ideas that specifically give intolerance to those who wish for it in my mod (the upcoming version, not the one available on the forum) as it was often a conscious policy as part of the state building undertaken during this era (for instance in early modern Spain or Persia, states that arguably did manage to convert large chunks of population quickly by force). Whereas tolerance in turn lowers conversion chances but makes heretics and pagans easier and more profitable to rule in the first place (for states like the Ottomans, the Mughals or the PLC).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKronblad View Post
    Excellent, exactly what I am after! Could I use that work of yours? Conversion chance as well as sliders. Which files did you change for conversion chance, and how?

    Many thanks, Trin!
    I did the religion conversion chance through Triggered Modifiers.

    Do you know of a better way, Trin?
    AURORA UNIVERSALIS, my total overhaul mod for EU4: starting in the beginning of the first millennium BC and covering the following 1500 years, including four bookmarks with Egyptian pharaohs, Assyrians, the Diadochi, Romans, and barbarians.
    399AD, my total overhaul mod for EU3: fight as the Late Roman Empire or as barbarian tribes in the turbulent century preceding the fall of Rome.
    EIS TÊN GASTERA ENALLONOMENOS, my simple supply line mod for EU4: establish, secure, maintain, and defend supply lines in enemy territory to provide troops with provisions, or risk becoming out of supply, suffering manpower losses due to increased attrition. Avoid getting "kicked in the stomach"!

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