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Thread: I need a history lesson - Why are some of the Duchies/Kingdoms awkard in Middle East?

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    I need a history lesson - Why are some of the Duchies/Kingdoms awkard in Middle East?

    I'm not too familiar with the history of the Middle East, but why are some of the Kingdoms and Duchies are awkward in the Middle East? Some of them have weird parts stick out, on missing certain pieces that are in other duchies.

    Please forgive my ignorance.

  2. #2
    The Closer Supermoderator Veldmaarschalk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorOfIberia View Post
    I'm not too familiar with the history of the Middle East, but why are some of the Kingdoms and Duchies are awkward in the Middle East? Some of them have weird parts stick out, on missing certain pieces that are in other duchies.

    Please forgive my ignorance.
    Could you be more specific about what you find weird or awkward ?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldmaarschalk View Post
    Could you be more specific about what you find weird or awkward ?
    It's hard to explain. I mean, the Duchies look kind of ugly and messy. Like, Why does Ascalon have one land county not in line with the rest. It's not that I find dislike it, but I was curious why it looks like it.

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    Not a Turk Chamboozer's Avatar
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    Some are organized around geographical lines, like the Hedjaz and others on the Peninsula, but most of them seem more or less random.
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    Well, the duchies in the KoJ seem to be based off of the real life lordships of the 13th century Kingdom. And they were fairly ad hoc creations (for example, Jaffa and Ascalon just happened to be given to the same Lord). So, that's probably why some of them look odd.

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    Liberté, egalité, fraternité StephenT's Avatar
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    The game simplifies the actual historical reality. The real-life kingdom of Jerusalem contained over 20 seignuries, several of which were combined, created, abolished, split, or whatever over the history of the kingdom. They didn't divide up neatly into de jure duchies.; but in the game, they have to.

    As far as I can see, the territory south of Jerusalem was an independent county, the Lordship of Hebron, that reported directly to the king. It wasn't in any "duchy" in real life. However the Count of Ascalon & Jaffa - referred to in-game as the Duke of Ascalon - did control a large amount of territory and smaller vassals in the south of the kingdom, and so Hebron ("Beersheb") is allocated to them in de jure terms.

    There were four main nobles in the kingdom of Jerusalem below the king - the Count of Ascalon & Jaffa, Count of Oultrejourdain, Count of Tyre, and Prince of Galilee - plus several smaller ones as I've mentioned. The kings held Jerusalem, Nablus, Acre and Tyre as their royal demesne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaol View Post
    Well, the duchies in the KoJ seem to be based off of the real life lordships of the 13th century Kingdom. And they were fairly ad hoc creations (for example, Jaffa and Ascalon just happened to be given to the same Lord). So, that's probably why some of them look odd.
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenT View Post
    The game simplifies the actual historical reality. The real-life kingdom of Jerusalem contained over 20 seignuries, several of which were combined, created, abolished, split, or whatever over the history of the kingdom. They didn't divide up neatly into de jure duchies.; but in the game, they have to.

    As far as I can see, the territory south of Jerusalem was an independent county, the Lordship of Hebron, that reported directly to the king. It wasn't in any "duchy" in real life. However the Count of Ascalon & Jaffa - referred to in-game as the Duke of Ascalon - did control a large amount of territory and smaller vassals in the south of the kingdom, and so Hebron ("Beersheb") is allocated to them in de jure terms.

    There were four main nobles in the kingdom of Jerusalem below the king - the Count of Ascalon & Jaffa, Count of Oultrejourdain, Count of Tyre, and Prince of Galilee - plus several smaller ones as I've mentioned. The kings held Jerusalem, Nablus, Acre and Tyre as their royal demesne.
    Thanks, that has been very helpful. But beyond Jerusalem, some of the other Kingdoms look sort of weird as well. They look artificial and kind of ad hoc too. I guess it wouldn't be... wrong for me to try to mod certain Kingdoms and Duchies?

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    Not a Turk Chamboozer's Avatar
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    The only Kingdoms that make some sense are those in the Maghreb (Mauretania/Africa), Egypt, and Mesopotamia, as it seems to represent a 'Kingdom of the two Iraqs'. The duchies are optimized for gameplay I suppose.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Chamboozer View Post
    The only Kingdoms that make some sense are those in the Maghreb (Mauretania/Africa), Egypt, and Mesopotamia, as it seems to represent a 'Kingdom of the two Iraqs'. The duchies are optimized for gameplay I suppose.
    Yeah, I was referring mostly to the Middle East, not the Africa ones. For example, The Kingdom of Syria looks odd. It has several "protrusions" of counties that don't fit neatly with it.

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