China during Korean War/Vietnam War

[LouiST]

During the Korean war both China provided a large amount of aid to North Korea. More than a million "voluntary armies" were sent. (a hell lot more than the no. of both North Korean and Soviet soldiers who participated the war combined)

How to present this sheer number of army? Should they be represented as just supporting troops controlled by N. Korea? Or should they be controlled by China?
If they are controlled by China, how to prevent China directly fighting the West in-game so that China wont get invaded immediately after N. Korea is defeated?

And, during the Vietnam War, China also sent large amount of supplies. But this time there was the Cultural Revolution. China was literally in total chaos. There was even armed conflicts between the Red Guards(weapons mostly from the military). My father was there, and he says in Yunnan the Red Guards even got the weapons(including anti-air guns) which were to sent to N. Vietnam to just fight each other.

So, how should the game represent the Cultural Revolution?

[gianlucad]

I think it would be best to simply add these soldiers to the manpower pool and then remove them after the war ends.

[fenwayb]

Well I'm pretty sure that MacArthur wanted to nuke China for joining in the Korean War...

[Don_Quigleone]

Why not just have China join North Korea's alliance?

There should be ways for limited engagements to occur whereby China can fight US troops inside Korea, but the war doesn't extend to outside of it.

[Arcaul]

Well I'm pretty sure that MacArthur wanted to nuke China for joining in the Korean War...

You've got it backwards. MacArthur publicly stated that Korea should be a springboard to wipe out Communism in East Asia and that they should invade China next. The Chinese didn't like this and sent the troops into Korea to prevent any such possibility.

[Laskaris]

During the Korean war both China provided a large amount of aid to North Korea. More than a million "voluntary armies" were sent. (a hell lot more than the no. of both North Korean and Soviet soldiers who participated the war combined)

How to present this sheer number of army? Should they be represented as just supporting troops controlled by N. Korea? Or should they be controlled by China?
If they are controlled by China, how to prevent China directly fighting the West in-game so that China wont get invaded immediately after N. Korea is defeated?

And, during the Vietnam War, China also sent large amount of supplies. But this time there was the Cultural Revolution. China was literally in total chaos. There was even armed conflicts between the Red Guards(weapons mostly from the military). My father was there, and he says in Yunnan the Red Guards even got the weapons(including anti-air guns) which were to sent to N. Vietnam to just fight each other.

So, how should the game represent the Cultural Revolution?

A game about the Cold War obviously needs detailed mechanics to simulate proxy wars and undeclared wars, complete with various levels of involvement of the bigger powers in such wars, with open or covert support, troop training, expeditionary forces and so on. China's involvement in the Korean war and in Vietnam could be modelled with that, as could be the involvement of other powers.

[fenwayb]

You've got it backwards. MacArthur publicly stated that Korea should be a springboard to wipe out Communism in East Asia and that they should invade China next. The Chinese didn't like this and sent the troops into Korea to prevent any such possibility.

I knew it was something like that. Either way, China being a "real" combatant in the war is not unreasonable.

[LouiST]

You've got it backwards. MacArthur publicly stated that Korea should be a springboard to wipe out Communism in East Asia and that they should invade China next. The Chinese didn't like this and sent the troops into Korea to prevent any such possibility.

I remember that the US president was opposed to his idea too and dismissed him later.

[Geredis]

During the Korean war both China provided a large amount of aid to North Korea. More than a million "voluntary armies" were sent. (a hell lot more than the no. of both North Korean and Soviet soldiers who participated the war combined)

How to present this sheer number of army? Should they be represented as just supporting troops controlled by N. Korea? Or should they be controlled by China?
If they are controlled by China, how to prevent China directly fighting the West in-game so that China wont get invaded immediately after N. Korea is defeated?

Is there any chance that they could take a page out of Supreme Ruler: Cold War's manual? Wherein a country can join a proxy war with someone in their political sphere and they can directly participate in the war, provided the combat each other only directly within the borders of the two primary belligerent powers?

In that game, teh primary proxy war that occurs is between the Vietnamese and French, guaranteed almost. According to SRCW, the Chinese can align the Vietnamese, or ask permission, or what have you, then pour troops into the country, and allies of France can do the same...fighting any hostile forces within the conflict zone (in this case Vietnam/Indochina only) - however, should the CHinese and those proxy allies of the French meet outside of the conflict zone, as I recall they cannot fight the Chinese beyond Vietnamese or French territory.

I think something along those lines, wherein the country offering forces can directly control their forces, but they are assigned to a conflict theater based upon the theater assignments of the 'host' country. Forces are offered by Country A to Country B. Country B then slots them into their OOB, to be commanded by Country A however it best sees fit, so long as they remain within the areas delineated by the Theater they are connected to.

I'm not sure how much sense that makes, but something along those lines sounds like it might work, even if a little complicated.

[Archam]

A game about the Cold War obviously needs detailed mechanics to simulate proxy wars and undeclared wars, complete with various levels of involvement of the bigger powers in such wars, with open or covert support, troop training, expeditionary forces and so on. China's involvement in the Korean war and in Vietnam could be modelled with that, as could be the involvement of other powers.

Exactly, I want to save Angola as Cuba, that's a must have feature.

[Raph]

I guess this shows the importance of proxy wars/limited wars not being only between the two superpowers.

[Archam]

Yes you could argue that the Suez Crisis was also some sort of limited war. The UK and France did not really declare war on Egypt, they were doing it via Israel