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Thread: By what criteria do you hand out provinces/titles?

  1. #1

    By what criteria do you hand out provinces/titles?

    Have to say I haven't really understood if and how the NPCs' stats are important for counts or dukes. Do stats matter for your vassals? Or are they only important for yourself and for council members?

    Presently, I am going by Four Commandments of Fiefdom that I learned from experience:
    1. Never give out titles to Ambitious people, ever. Also, try to avoid giving titles to Envious people. Prefer Content vasalls.
    2. Never give titles to close relatives, such as brothers, they will only ever stab your back when you aren't looking. As your sons grow up, only give them the bare minimum; no more than one county directly and no more than a two-county duchy with one vasall count transferred to them.
    3. Never give out titles to foreigners, even if they seem nice. The -10 to -20 penalty _never_ goes away, and if his successor happens to be ambitious, you will never be able to keep them in line.
    4. Thou shalt not give out titles to those who show too much Ambition. Verily, this commandment is like unto the first, but it is of such importance that it bore mentioning twice. (No rule without exception: sometimes I deliberately plant Ambitious counts into a duchy whose duke I don't like and/or want to keep busy. I always feel as if I'm tossing a rattlesnake when I do that.)

    I have a feeling that numerical stats are mostly unimportant for rulers; except sometimes I give a fief to someone who would make a great councillor for me, but is currently employed in someone else's council. Giving them a title will free them up for you.
    Apart from that, I look at the Virtue-to-Sin ratio and pick candidates that have as many good traits in common with me (for bonuses such as "Both Kind").

    What do you say, are the numerical stats important for your counts?

  2. #2
    As a Christian, considering I've yet to enjoy a single Islam campaign, Christians are still where its at for me;

    1. Always favor Dynasts, even if they're more likely than others to rule poorly or backstab me. Bloodrops get it first for RP reasons and to help spread the dynasty. Exceptions: Inbred, Imbeciles, females I can't matri-marry to anyone worthwhile.

    2. Content people get the best titles, within reason. I always assume titles I hand out will end up in a family branch I cant control for centuries after the guy dies, though, and therefore I'm well aware no duke will STAY content.

    3. High stats. Especially Stewardship, and then diplo/martial if they have sub-vassals, only martial if they rule over all their lands directly.

    4. Cultural match. Religion doesnt matter as it can be converted easily. Wrong culture is OK if theyre old and have a really young kid I could educate into proper culture if they croaked.

    5. RP reasons. I guess its a little silly from a powerplaying POV but I like to be extra nice towards people who helped me out or their children. Its a form of RP; if everythings elses sort of equal, Ill definitely favor dynasties who were on my side when I needed them. The game feels "better" if you keep these things in mind and act accordingly..

  3. #3
    As long as everything else in your realm is ok, ambitious vassals aren't so bad. Put them on council and give them an honorary title, and they're fine. And if you gave them the title, then there's no problem. I agree about brothers and foreigners completely, though.

    I mainly worry about the characters' heirs. Do they have children? Are these children ambitious (because the little ingrates aren't going to remember that you made their family's fortunes)? Are these children terrible, or married to terrible characters? Are they young enough for me to educate (and get that sweet mentor bonus).

  4. #4
    Major TKFS's Avatar
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    Basically, I just RP. If someone did something nice for me, I'll reward them. This has obviously caused issues, but hey, it makes it all the more interesting!
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  5. #5
    Second Lieutenant
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    I'm pretty new to the game, so take this with the appropriate grain of salt

    If I don't have a kinsman ready to receive land yet, I like to give land to unmarried, aged celibates to "hold" it for me for a while. If they're Content that's a great bonus, but it's not necessary--I find even ambition or foreignness is okay if they're old enough. These guys take a really long time to find a bride. Sometimes they do beat all the reluctance of women to marry them and -1000% fertility, and they have children--but they rarely have more than one. That's nothing one fatal accident won't fix.

    I give a pretender an undeveloped barony if I can't give him death (assuming a barony is available). Eventually the barony will become a nice kinsman breeding ground. This keeps the pretender from roaming around the courts of the world, making friends, possibly installing himself as heir to some grand city. Also, just what is he going to accomplish with a levy of 225, a bride I picked for him, and almost no income? Hehe.

    I don't often give land to ambitious people but there are several exceptions. One particularly good use of them, I find, is to grant a bishopric (which will be under one of my vassals, and not my problem) to take them safely out of a line of succession. As a bonus, if possible, I see them married to an annoying spouse right before the grant. I've also granted them a county that I would be transferring to an annoying duke. Ambitious vassals of my vassals are good at keeping a balance of power intact, and the target sign off my back...as long as I won't need the levies.

    I've read that stewardship helps convert culture faster. So I breed content stewards (kinsmen if possible) for different-culture land grants. I tend to educate people for Learning, otherwise, since that helps with tech growth instead of friendships or murder. I also don't train people who aren't my heir for too many positive traits, since that makes them both popular and a hater. I prefer virtues for me and my heir, and sins for everybody else.

  6. #6
    Yeah, I have to amend the above a bit:

    - it's probably safe to plant Ambitious nobles in single counties that are not part of a Duchy (i.e. where the Duchy has not been created), or whose other counties belong to a different realm. Then his venom and hate will turn against that other realm.

    - I now scan the Vassal lists for top values in primary stats; these are often employed as Councillors of other nobles. By granting them a title, you can appoint them to your own council. That way I got a Chancellor with Diplomacy 31 (!), a kinsman no less. When my Council is good, I tend to prefer good Martial scores since you can never have too many qualified army commanders.

    - I am now less reluctant to give out titles to kinsmen (dark red drops), but am still very careful what concerns my brothers and suns (bright drops).
    After an inheritance desaster that is currently happening in my campaign (absolutely atrocious Firstborn now locked in my dungeon), I have vowed to land my sons as late as possible, and even then maximum one county per son, so if he turns out wayward I can still strip him without too much trouble and assign him a church career.

    - However, I still look for virtues rather than sins, because my ruler typically also has a lot of virtues, and you get a lot of nice synergies there if both nobles have the same virtues, but penalties for opposing virtues and sins.
    The sins I frequently tolerate are lustful, gluttonous and proud, but I avoid Envious people wherever possible because they give a -15 penalty.

    Interesting point about Stewardship helping with Culture conversion; can anyone confirm that? Then I would give that preference for my next Spanish conquests.
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  7. #7
    First Lieutenant Puking Panda's Avatar
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    I exclusively give titles to my dynasty, the closer they are related, the larger chance they have of receiving a title(their ambition can usually be stopped through a bribe), but I tend not to give titles to persons with bad inheritable traits.
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  8. #8
    Apart from avoideing ambitious, my only main criteria is keeping duchies 'proper'. I hate dukes owning a county not in their duchy and basically try to arrange my realm into neat de jure duchies.

  9. #9
    I also keep trying that, but those bastards marry!

    At one point after my Norwegian conquest of England, I had my entire realm neatly sorted into de Jure duchies, each Duke with only one demesne county. And inhibited vasall warring by keeping Medium Crown Authority.
    About two generations later, some top dogs had acquired up to four duchies again. I suppose that what they do is marry into a different duchy, or by acquiring single counties through inheritance and then usurping the ducal title.
    Dear CK2 team: please implement an Embark All Units button. Mobilizing a sea-kingdom is a bitch. TIA.

  10. #10
    First Lieutenant Gqarz's Avatar
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    I have a few sets of rules, one for duchies, one for counties, and one for baronies/bishoprics. Duchies go to those nobles who will be content with them. (ambitious people only get bishoprics) I have had some trouble with Dukes who try to acquire more territory than I like. Those get antagonized into revolting before they become too troublesome so I can revoke some of their titles and lock them away forever. I find that heirs like me better once I expedite their inheritances. Nobody ever gets more than one county except me. Counties go to previously unlanded members of my court with high stewarship. Again, nothing but bishoprics to ambitious folks. Counts who are loyal members in De Jure counties get the duchies, never more than 1, based on stewardship and the content trait. Baronies and bishoprics go exclusively to those unlanded members of my court with high stewardship/learning. Mayors are always assigned due to high stewardship as those guys tend to turn my cities into real gold mines.

    Please note, I try to institute some form of feudal tax early. Higher taxes tend to cause more revolts or so it seems, so I'm careful with them.
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  11. #11
    Megas Domestikos Lord Finnish's Avatar
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    1. No ambitious or envious rulers
    2. Not in same dynasty as me
    3. Does not already hold land
    4. My culture and religion.
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  12. #12
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    1. The person has to be of the same dynasty as me. If no one like that is to be found I try to make a republic
    2. I tend to give a person a whole duchy (can be easily done if you are Shia, as you can always holy war).
    3. I only give land to landholders if it their de jure right.

  13. #13
    First Lieutenant ChinpoUK's Avatar
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    1. Avoid people with ambitious or envious traits. Having the content trait is a plus but not necessary.
    2. Usually of the same dynasty, though loyal courtiers etc are rewarded.
    3. Same culture, religion usually doesn't matter.
    4. Stats have to be average or above. Duchies with a high amounts of levies get Dukes with high martial.
    5. Duchies must stay within their de jure territory, no superdukes. If someone inherits more than one duchy, he/she gets excommunicated and the title revoked and I make liberal use of assassins to make sure no-one inherits more than one duchy. Gifts are used to soothe bruised egos. If they still don't like it, they die in the middle of the night.

  14. #14
    This is a great topic and a nice concise collection of considerations, which I would have really benefitted from when I was first really learning the ropes.

    The one thing I would add is that I like to check out whether the person I am considering is either an heir or has a strong claim somewhere outside my control. Early on, playing as a Duchess, I had a count who had a strong claim on a kingdom (but wasnt the heir) but things happen like they sometimes do and he wound up the king, and took with him the lands that had been my county. So I like to make sure people I'm considering either do not have any other claims, or if they have claims/are heir to external lands, that the lands I am going to give them are higher ranking than those they stand to inherit. So I would give a county to someone who stood to inherit an external barony, or a duchy to someone who stood to inherit an external county. That way, yours is the higher ranking title and they stay as your vassal, bringing in the "new" land into your domain when they inherit.

    I actually got my foot in the door of the de jure HRE that way, through a vassal inheritance. Now I hope to revoke it and take it for myself so I can set myself up for election to HRE.

  15. #15
    I have only 2 conditions in normal cases, some times I give more title to existing vassal in succession crisys in order to placete them, but that is practically last resort.
    1) no ambitions.
    2) My old male unmarries member of the court with out any relatives (if you get one by inviting noble or holly man some time ago ,most ften your predisessor and do not marrie them - perfect. Then befor giving out county I marry them for 40 years old girl.

    what does it do? they will have very small probability to have children and YOU will be there heir, untill they manage somehow to get a child. So, there very big chance that title will go back to yuo in next 20 years, often faster.
    So, you will get as bonus all gold they collected in mean time, and will have opportunity to hand this title out again! (does not work will elective titles, like cities or bishoptolic).

  16. #16
    3. I only give land to landholders if it their de jure right.
    This may work well when dealing with your native land, but I tried to follow this policy once after conquering England and that went tits up fast, as naturally a lot of holdings went to the houses of Godwin and Wessex. It just doesn't do, as it violates the "same culture" rule that appears to be consensus in this thread. By now I can't be bothered to check for de Jure claims, my Empire is too big to care for petty feuds like that.
    Dear CK2 team: please implement an Embark All Units button. Mobilizing a sea-kingdom is a bitch. TIA.

  17. #17
    Try to role-play where you can, it does make it more interesting as people have said. I hand out titles almost exclusively for the stats otherwise. If you are a big empire/kingdom, get those high marshal people into a lot of titles. I had an HRE in Western Europe, Iberia, and Egypt, and it would have been an absolute pain to ship commanders around if I had fighting more than one war. So I try to keep 7+ landed vassals worthy of leading an army.

    If you have a lot of piety/virtues consider giving things to bishops, they will make very good vassals. And if you have free investiture, you can put whoever you want in their titles!

  18. #18
    Sergeant znrch's Avatar
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    I try to follow a few rules when playing as a Muslim and pushing into Europe:

    -Never give a title to a family member.
    -Divide up emirates/duchies. For example, a 5 province emirate might be divided between 4 or 5 different sheikhs.
    -They must be unlanded to receive land.
    -I make an effort for my emirs to be of the same religion and culture as myself. This seems to encourage newly conquered lords and lands to convert a little faster than normal.

  19. #19
    As a Christian,

    First preferance to unlanded dynasty members, especially those with sons, regardless of traits or stats. You can never have too many dynasty memebrs landed as a Christian.
    Second preferance to unlanded same culture nobles who already have children or unlanded dynasty of thier own. The idea being I don't need to worry about thier succession lines.
    Third preferance is interesting unlanded people or dynasties who have lost all of thier holdings and fled to my/vassals court. There are a few dynasties I like to keep alive when I can, just because I like them, de Brus, of Wessex, d'Hauteville, Jimena. I don't care about thier culture because it will change eventually.

    I rarely worry about ambitious or envious types because they can always be kept in line and besides, that content super duke you made might have little rascal children one day.

    Above all, no heretics!

  20. #20
    Field Marshal
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    When I need to dump some demesne, I pick dudes from the dynasty unless they're particularly bad. When I go outside the dynasty, I pick guys who are not likely to cause the province to fall out of my realm.

    I sometimes make people counts or dukes if they're heirs to (respectively) a county or duchy that I want to become part of my realm. In this type of situation, I will even give the land to bad people.

    BUT: I never, never give any land to Possessed people. And try not to give any to people with Possessed spouses. I also try to avoid giving anything to Cruel people as far as possible. This for roleplaying reasons. I avoid Ambitious people for revolt risk reasons (-50 opinion).

    I also fish out previous holders or legitimate heirs of previous holders in cases like holy wars for previously Christian-held territories or some de iure claims.

    In some cases, I reward people from outside my dynasty for service.
    Last edited by NewbieOne; 02-08-2012 at 19:04.
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