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(1) Mint to support 60k troops so you can form Russia a few decades ahead of schedule;
(2) *Actually proposing bankruptcy as a good idea for doing so* instead of just forming in the mid-1400s like a reasonable human being who isn't at your or PrawnStar's level.

It's less "What he's proposing is impossibly fast!" and more "Trying to do this as fast as he is with the means he's using is stupid." If that makes sense.

That's why it struck me as almost undoable when he proposed it, just for the mere fact that I never considered such drastic tactics.

I guess I play way too "by the book" (?)

And my lack of MP experience being the biggest factor on why I've never seen such strategies in the first place I guess. :unsure:
 
Perhaps for you. lol. I'd have some trouble with it; I handled them with 25k as Byzantium before, but only long enough to create a vassal buffer zone, not to colonize the whole thing.

But that's beside the point; Iwanow explicitly proposed 60k troops for this and said it was feasible to fund this in the 1410s as Russia. Further, I recall when I posted about aforesaid Byzantium situation that he saw the screencap and said "Only 25k?" leading me to believe that he's not making the same argument that you are. My opposition is to his ludicrous suggestion that it is anywhere remotely resembling a good idea to:

(1) Mint to support 60k troops so you can form Russia a few decades ahead of schedule;
(2) *Actually proposing bankruptcy as a good idea for doing so* instead of just forming in the mid-1400s like a reasonable human being who isn't at your or PrawnStar's level.

It's less "What he's proposing is impossibly fast!" and more "Trying to do this as fast as he is with the means he's using is stupid." If that makes sense.

It's much easier to fight the horde as muscowy instead of byznatium because of russian winter. Even without scorched earth it will decimate the horde's giant stacks, if you do actually scorch the land you can take a 20k stack down to less than 7k in no time.

As far as training 60k men as muscowy, I suppose you could if you managed to annex novgorod VERY fast, but to do that before 1410's requires quite a bit of luck.
 
I suppose it depends a bit on luck, since TGH's strength fluctuates a lot over time. The main hesitation I have with fighting TGH is that it'd lower war capacity enough to attract a dog-pile by Catholics. But that's in SP, of course.

Most Catholics are busy dogpiling muslims at that point in time. Or Poland/Lithuania if the ai doesn't peace out with the GH.
 
But that's beside the point; Iwanow explicitly proposed 60k troops for this and said it was feasible to fund this in the 1410s as Russia. Further, I recall when I posted about aforesaid Byzantium situation that he saw the screencap and said "Only 25k?" leading me to believe that he's not making the same argument that you are. My opposition is to his ludicrous suggestion that it is anywhere remotely resembling a good idea to:

(1) Mint to support 60k troops so you can form Russia a few decades ahead of schedule;
(2) *Actually proposing bankruptcy as a good idea for doing so* instead of just forming in the mid-1400s like a reasonable human being who isn't at your or PrawnStar's level.

It's less "What he's proposing is impossibly fast!" and more "Trying to do this as fast as he is with the means he's using is stupid." If that makes sense.
Iwanow suggested that it might be possible to have that many men by 1420, assuming you have formed Russia by then (which is possible if you know what you are doing and the missions go your way), like I mentioned in my post I have very limited experiance with moscowy (so I was not particularly fast with expanding), and had not even taken over novgorod yet. if you have the Russia part sorted you will probably have income and forcelimit for an other 20k-30k troops depending on which army composition you use
 
Well, muscowy starts with 10k. When you annex minors, you can have, like 20k easily, when you vassalize/annex novgorod, it is another 10k, when you form russia you get another 10k support limit, when you reconquest all your cores, its like ~10-20k, so it is just going to your forcelimit. And i Say, GH is doable with 10k, you just need to quickly capture province, colonize it, and peace out after it is yours, then do this few next wars.
 
lol, i am serious, i did gained 1 province from golden horde using only 10k troops. After you gain the one province, everything is easier because you use the nomad units, and own everyone around you XD(usefull for multiplayer, if poland is agressive - because you will have more chances using steppe cavalry & infantry).

We should play together some time Iwanow so I get the chance to crush you.
 
lol, i am serious, i did gained 1 province from golden horde using only 10k troops. After you gain the one province, everything is easier because you use the nomad units, and own everyone around you XD(usefull for multiplayer, if poland is agressive - because you will have more chances using steppe cavalry & infantry).

This depends a lot on what else is going on with the GH. If they are embroiled in major wars along several fronts, say Pol+Lit+Ott+Hun+TSC then yes, you can quickly grab a province and peace out. If they aren't distracted it becomes a much tougher task when they outnumber you 3-4:1 and have better troops.
 
This depends a lot on what else is going on with the GH. If they are embroiled in major wars along several fronts, say Pol+Lit+Ott+Hun+TSC then yes, you can quickly grab a province and peace out. If they aren't distracted it becomes a much tougher task when they outnumber you 3-4:1 and have better troops.

Well they were just distracted with poland lithuania. But anyway sent 10k stack, and followed me. But i managed to outmaneuver them, and colonize province before they killed my troops, then paid tribute(after which i gained cored kazan - kazan is the best province from which you can choose from the beggining btw, because it is decent tax and iron province).
 
any nation built by the ai is doable with 30k in all honesty, as long as the tech is similar
Indeed they are, at least until the late game when they start using reasonably large stacks (but obviously you'll have more than 30k by then).

--

To everyone else: It's not about luck, or being really good at the game, or having other countries fighting them, etc. The golden horde uses sub-30k stacks. Let them assault a province to drain the morale from their infantry (so that only their cavalry are doing anything) then wipe the stack. Repeat. Same way you can easily do stuff like, say, beat Bohemia+Hungary+TO in 1399 with Poland on 25kish men.
 
http://www.europa3.ru/cgi-bin/mpsta...int&season=comp-2012-3&game=XII&yearsave=1456
This is my novgorod-russia after 2 sessions. I went for a quite unusual strategy of "trade first", and so far it worked quite okay. I put missionaries in most of russias cores, so thats quite nicely settled. Next session will see me innovating and after that centralizing a bit more. Should give me a westernization by 1480, including the military.
Formed Russia in 1433 btw, got a streak at bad luck right at the end of it, but apart from that everything went smooth.
 
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http://www.europa3.ru/cgi-bin/mpsta...int&season=comp-2012-3&game=XII&yearsave=1456
This is my novgorod-russia after 2 sessions. I went for a quite unusual strategy of "trade first", and so far it worked quite okay. I put missionaries in most of russias cores, so thats quite nicely settled. Next session will see me innovating and after that centralizing a bit more. Should give me a westernization by 1480, including the military.
Formed Russia in 1433 btw, got a streak at bad luck right at the end of it, but apart from that everything went smooth.

Or that stats are screwed, or in first session you played poland and falahk novgorod, then in second you swaped XD
 
Nah, thats a mistake in the stats. What is screwed however is that france has been annexed by castille, but thats none of my buisness (yet).
'

Shit happens. I got PU'ed by castille, while warring burgundy and england(which got 2 other players in same session, from which first trolled me by declaring war) in MP, after i recklessly lost 40k troops when trying to wipe burgundy army. It was my fault thou bcs i played when having earache, and making nosense moves(i should have just occupy southern burgundy instead of engaging it main force on its own land). However due to spain this war ended in white peace(but it should end in burgundy releasing flanders... because spain kicked burgundy ass), then burgundy dowed me again(not instantly thou, i had to quit because gm wanted to edit me into separate war because castille and I refused to give up), and this time won because Austria(lol) helping it in agressive war, and england deciding to continue the war with france(because i killed one of his armies, when he refused to move out of brittany - he was second player).

I wonder, why falahk didn't destroyed you anyway?