The AI will not attack in a group if every individual army is weaker than yours.Originally Posted by n0thin
The AI will not attack in a group if every individual army is weaker than yours.
Viyayangar -> Hindustan is also a viable choice. There are a lot of rich provinces in India, and you constantly get missions to conqueror and get cores. And since you're far away from Europe you can avoid the wrath of your friends. Westernising is going to be the problem.
Any game, where players don't want to see the east screwed by hordes put poland in them, because it simply blocks GH from doing anything, except eating georgia.
But actualy i think if you put poland AND you put muscowy, you should put also TO and brandenburg, in order to give muscowy at least a little chance of not being killed if poland player want to kill it. It is because poland is capable of killing them all at once, but at least they have chances if they are united.
With burgundy i think burgundy kind screw up the game, because if there is austria and castille, unless france will kill burgundy quickly, those two will propably guarantee those two, in order to screw over france. Unless france will do naps with all surrounding countries, it is very propable that one of them will screw it over, when fighting france is fighting burgundy. And even if it will not happen, france will use lot more resources to defeat burgundy player, than burgundy AI.
So if there is no france, there will be likely or super burgundy, or super castille, or super england, or super austria, or two or three of them. And France being alive is not realy so overpowered(onlt around 150k base forcelimit, and some of provinces not being cores. While for example austria HRE got 170 forcelimit when it becomes emperor, just because it is - and when it get land size of france, it can easily have like 300k while france have half of it - which is quite insane).
Add to this, that for example castille, have charge cavalry in granada, which easily makes it powerfull enough to survive with army lesser than france, and conquer africa, italy, and screw over ottoman empire, to make the support limit difference smaller, or even surpass french. And it can allways go colonial at the same time.
Last edited by Iwanow; 01-08-2012 at 15:43.
How the hell did Poland enter this discussion?
Because he's completely right. AI poland gets eaten by the hordes, whereas a competent player will vassal cushion which basically stops the GH expanding at all. It has to do with the shape of Poland and its PUs/vassals and their positions.
Almost sounds like it would be a good idea to play Poland in MP. You have some leeway to do what you want because you can use brinkmanship diplomacy and threaten to unleash the Horde on Europe if people hurt you too badly. Not foolproof, obviously, but who doesn't want the Horde to go away?
If you threaten to unleash the horde on austria (the only one who it could actually reach) the guy will thank you for that since he can now just goad it into the hre and get free cores, the horde is not going to threaten any decent player in western europe, its not stable enough for it.
Yeah but that was kind of off-topic. The OP said he didn't want to be far away from his friend and the rest of the discussions in this thread was mostly about Burgundy vs. France. If you get what I mean.
indeed is a bit off topic from my OP also the fact that my Internet game with my friends has started now and i ended up being France and my m8 that was gonna be France chose to be Austria.
Thou its still pretty useful information for anyone setting up an MP game. So can turn this thread into a Gerneral which country in MP game thread =] Who is good to be and what strat is good to do as them.
Un was wondering as im now being France whats the best strat to unify France as fast as pos while not being to vulnerable doing it. Un how do i go about getting Brittany as they allied with burgundy un not sure if can take them both on at same time least not untill got all them lil vassals annexed or they break there alliance.
That doesn't work. The reality of the situation with MP poland is trying your hardest to both kill your neighbours and not be ganked by those same neighbours at the same time. Definitely one of the more stressful nations to play (incidentally I have a game with them going on right now, although it isn't at all normal).
Not as stressful as playing france, when all your neighbours want to kill you, and you got burgundy player too.
Shouldn't have a burgundy player when you have a france.
France is much richer and is western tech, not to mention they get tons of cores. Poland cannot stand up to any two of its neighbours at once. France has a better shot, and its chances improve with time (in comparison with Poland's, which decrease).
Well polands starts with Austria, Teutonic Order, Brandenburg, Muscowy, Denmark, Hansa, Maybe Hungary and Ottoman/byzantine players. Of which only Austria is likely to mess you up, as at worst ottos, will want to take budjak from you. As austria does not starts any immediate wars with poland and rest of polish nighbours are so weak that poland can defeat them alltogether at once(even hungary), you just need to clear your garden of weeds, while having nap with austria. Then after muscowy is dead, you got danzig and warmia, plus TO and mazovia vassalized, you build up your army to forcelimit which is around 50-60k(cause you get half of TO forcelimit, plus mazovia, danzig and warmia are good tax provinces), and if austria is not HRE, ur enough strong to kill it(and propably you can kill even if it IS hre). You just need(which i learned on my mistakes), things in order. First kill muscowy. Then kill teutonic order, and brandenburg(if austria allow you do it - good thing if they are allied - if you are sure austria will not intervene, you can even try to make them a forced alliance by threatning bb, and not speaking with TO), after which, you see if any of hungary - bohemia are having no heir or low legit. If one of them does not you can try to PU it(best if it is bohemia - aspecialy if austria is NOT HRE, and does not guarantee it...). When you PU it, propably austria will become emperor, but if you built up to your forcelimit, you will just dow it, before it use its advantage of being emperor, and destroy it by using sheer brutal force(after which you just demand all provinces around their capital and release everything possible if it is not over warscore).
When u are france if england is allied with burgundy = ur screwed, because together they got more forces than you, and if any more person will join their alliance you will be screwed propably. Ofc you can easily win by allying scotland and your vassals, plus guaranteeing everyone around them, and building uber army, then defeating them using the fact burgundy will propably leave southern provinces(because they are not very good for defence), to raise their WE, and decrease FL and MP, then waiting and not letting paris to be touched by the enemies(By placing 20k stack there) before you deal with southern provinces. But fighting 2 players at a time may be stressfull, if they are strong countries.
I am not seeing why Austria wouldn't intervene. If you as poland are expanding that rapidly, he should intervene either a) when you try and kill muscowy, or b) when you go for teutons.
Because Iwanow is Polish.
I tried something like this in SP , without killing Moscow as it's fairly useless in SP.
TO can fall easily , BB can be vassalized easily , but doing so without fighting the horde ... I don't intend to lose half the country or half of Lithuania to the horde!
I notice Polnd players often lose the southernmost province , it it cause it's fairly poor?
Unnecessary and useless post.
There are reasons an Austria player would look the other way at Polish expansionism in the northeast. One easily seen one is an agreement to aid against Hun, Boh, and particularly the OE; or at the very least to likewise look the other way. In general, a player Austria is unlikely to fear Poland due to advantages in wealth and technology. For Poland to match the army size and tech of an Austrian emperor is asking an awful lot of the Polish player. Austria generally will have bigger concerns looking west than east.
True, this is why if poland is likely to succed, if you plan well. And you don't need to kill austria, unless you want to expand in HRE(but if you want to kill austria you need to do it as soon as possible). You can allways form pol-russia, or just make a poland that reaches siberia(because some players just don't want to make tag changes). Good point of staying poland, is -30% discount on cavalry, when you reach certain conditions(thou i think tech prequisities are too high for this decision - make you only get it late game when cavalry is not so usefull...).
It was neither unnecessary nor useless; like many people on this forum, Iwanow is very nationalistic about his country of origin and not particularly objective about it. In this case, he's assuming France lands in the worst situation possible and Poland in the best.
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