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Thread: Incentives to go Protestant

  1. #1

    Incentives to go Protestant

    Large countries would need a little more incentives to convert to Protestantism.

    What advantage is there for Britain to go Protestant as it historically did? Catholicism offers the 30% colonial growth with papal bull (that's like a free NI) and curia controller bonuses.

  2. #2
    Simian Commissar SirkTheMonkey's Avatar
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    Freedom from the risk of excommunication was a pretty big motivation in my Anglo-French Union game. I got sick of constantly bribing the Pope (he was aligned with my enemies) so I lived with decades of excommunication waiting for the Protestant event to fire.

    The Papal Bull stuff only works if you're one of the first two countries to start colonising and even that dies off after a while. If you go by history, England would never have gotten it (Portugal and Castille/Spain would have the bonus) so it wouldn't be a factor in their decision making.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by SirkTheMonkey View Post
    Freedom from the risk of excommunication was a pretty big motivation in my Anglo-French Union game. I got sick of constantly bribing the Pope (he was aligned with my enemies) so I lived with decades of excommunication waiting for the Protestant event to fire.

    The Papal Bull stuff only works if you're one of the first two countries to start colonising and even that dies off after a while. If you go by history, England would never have gotten it (Portugal and Castille/Spain would have the bonus) so it wouldn't be a factor in their decision making.
    Well, if a human plays England, he is probably one of the first two nations to start colonizing.

  4. #4
    Simian Commissar SirkTheMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelmuthM View Post
    Well, if a human plays England, he is probably one of the first two nations to start colonizing.
    Of course. I ended up with half of Brazil settled before anyone else got QftNW because I swapped ideas (mmmm, cheese).
    My point is that if you're one of the first two colonisers you have a massive special incentive to stay Catholic, just as Portugal and Castille/Spain did historically. England didn't get in early historically so it didn't have that incentive. You can't directly compare the motives of an early colonising England in-game and a late-colonising England historically.
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  5. #5
    Isn't that big money bonus in vanilla for trying to get nations to flip to other religions?

  6. #6
    The real problem is the instability and difficulty in converting all your provinces and then having dozens of little modifiers on your provinces from minorities. It is really only worth the effort if you stay narrowminded and fairly theocratic. This of course requires you to have not done huge amounts of conquering/colonising in the 150+ years from the startdate.

    I've only considered it in a single game since the schism effects were annoying.

  7. #7
    In my opinion, pragmatically, there's no obvious upside to converting to Protestantism at all. You'll lose a lot of bonus and one of them is the monasteries. If you want to play with full innovative/secularism, monasteries help you get missionaries.

    As it stands now, the only reason I have if I were to convert is just for roleplaying purposes only. Sure you get the no excommunication thingy but you're not likely to be excommunicated anyway if you stay catholic (after all, why would the pope alienate any catholic when there are others that are outright rejecting it?). Even if you do get excommunicated, it's easily fixed by vassalizing the pope and waiting for your ruler to die.

    I think Protestantism should have more bonuses than Catholicism. After all, many Christians in Protestant colonies are more likely to pick it over Catholicism. Some other times, there are anomalies like Korea where Protestantism used to be the MAJORITY there before Atheism took hold.

  8. #8
    Major Malicite's Avatar
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    I've always thought of doing a conversion in one of my games but I've just never seen any benefit other than to perhaps give myself a challenge. But as my skill level is not the best, to put it kindly, I think I'll just stick with surviving as my challenge for now. My biggest wish would be to convert to a pagan religion though. Like starting as a Baltic Pagan (Romuva sounds better even if it's a new term) Lithuania!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malicite View Post
    My biggest wish would be to convert to a pagan religion though. Like starting as a Baltic Pagan (Romuva sounds better even if it's a new term) Lithuania!
    That'd be interesting to see. I hope you do!
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  10. #10
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    A exchange between each monastery you have and getting some money and a +1 base tax boost in each province you had a monastery in, to model the confiscation of catholic clergy lands ?
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  11. #11
    Also how about an event to represent an influx of skilled refugees. The modern day wealth of Geneva is in part due to the skilled Huguenot refugees which came from France.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by gigau View Post
    A exchange between each monastery you have and getting some money and a +1 base tax boost in each province you had a monastery in, to model the confiscation of catholic clergy lands ?
    It's not really a benefit. Monasteries have valuable bonuses so the tradeoff is sometimes not advantageous.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelmuthM View Post
    Large countries would need a little more incentives to convert to Protestantism.

    What advantage is there for Britain to go Protestant as it historically did? Catholicism offers the 30% colonial growth with papal bull (that's like a free NI) and curia controller bonuses.
    Youre the State, it didnt really get that much from it. The benefit was too the landowners, the lower nobility who became the modern parliament and created capitalism from the wealth and power reaped from the land they stole monasteries. Probably a tax increase would represent it and go some way towards balancing if balance is needed.
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  14. #14
    You can increase the base tax in a large number of your provinces by 1 by seizing church property, I think is what the point was.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by gigau View Post
    A exchange between each monastery you have and getting some money and a +1 base tax boost in each province you had a monastery in, to model the confiscation of catholic clergy lands ?
    I disagree. I think that the current "Disillusion of the Monasteries" events and seizing of church property events balance things out quite a bit.

    Currently after converting you get two events in every province with a monastery:
    Disillusion of the Monasteries
    1. +1 base tax
    2. +60 gold
    3. +stability investment

    Seize Church Property
    1. +20 gold

    Since church properties were quite widespread, I'd actually create an additional event that fires in every province giving +10 gold and +1 base tax. If that were added, converting would be quite useful.

    The events that automatically do the converting of provinces for you are quite nice, and if you have a good Theologian adviser you won't have any troubles.

  16. #16
    'Dissolution' or 'disillusion' of monasteries? Meaning is quite different. If you copied spelling from the game perfectly then I'd suggest that Gigau change the event name a little.

    Also, you are asking for a total of +2 base tax? A little steep I think. Especially when base tax values can be as low as 1 or 2 in some provinces.

  17. #17
    Lt. General NorwayBernd's Avatar
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    Yeah. Effectively doubling or tripling the base tax in some provinces isn't reasonable, if you ask me. It should be a percentage, don't you think?
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NorwayBernd View Post
    Yeah. Effectively doubling or tripling the base tax in some provinces isn't reasonable, if you ask me. It should be a percentage, don't you think?
    Just add a +10% tax bonus to the Protestant/Reformed religion.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Blxz View Post
    'Dissolution' or 'disillusion' of monasteries? Meaning is quite different. If you copied spelling from the game perfectly then I'd suggest that Gigau change the event name a little.

    Also, you are asking for a total of +2 base tax? A little steep I think. Especially when base tax values can be as low as 1 or 2 in some provinces.
    I did copy the spelling perfectly from the event file, but I believe that the localisation is "Dissolution" (the "Land Enclosure" decision is the localisation of land_inclosure, so this isn't unusual).

    And I don't really think that +2 base tax is a good idea at all. I was trying (and failing) to point out that the +1 bonus is already a significant enough incentive. The only change I'd seriously recommend, and then only if it was necessary to change something, would be to make the "Dissolution of the Monasteries" (if it already does, it isn't supposed to according to the event files).

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by HelmuthM View Post
    Just add a +10% tax bonus to the Protestant/Reformed religion.
    That doesn't really work in provinces that didn't have church property in them in the first place.

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