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Thread: Japan AI keeps getting stuck in Northern China, in FTM 3.05

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    Colonel Dron22's Avatar
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    Japan AI keeps getting stuck in Northern China, in FTM 3.05

    I know in previous versions like Semper Fi or Vanilla it was common that Japan gets beaten by China, but I have not seen it happen until now in FTM.
    I played a few games before and I always saw Japan conquer China before 1940, but I just started a new game as Germany and I saw Japan barely knocking out Shanxi before getting pushed back and then a long stalemate in Northern China. I started a new game and the same thing happened again.
    I though this problem was fixed a long time ago.
    What is wrong with Japan AI again?

  2. #2
    If 3.05 Japan issues are the same as 3.06's Japan issues, then it's happening because of supply problems. Every time that I would run my modified static modifiers that would give the AI increased supply throughput and naval base efficiency: Japan would take out NatChi within months. Without it? They'd never advance more than a few provinces throughout the entire lifespan of the game, even if they did a rare amphibious assault.

    Changing supply_throughput and naval_base_efficiency to 0.25 for your chosen difficulty_ai in the file should fix the problem. Unfortunately, it also results in overly successful Germany & Japan all-together.

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    Im happy with a stalemate... or some sort of whitepeace between them so both survives.
    /Loke

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    Colonel Dron22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Im happy with a stalemate... or some sort of whitepeace between them so both survives.
    I have never seen two AI fighting nations make peace in HOI3.

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    neither have I....
    /Loke

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    I have. The syrian revolution against France once. Syria made a straith line trough that french colony and made peace without conquering all of it and leaving some low infrastructure with 0 materials left
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    I hope this will work to me either, since you need a good timing to push back as Com. China

  8. #8
    Japan seems to follow this pattern in 3.05:
    Wins outright in a year or so most of the time
    Will hold the line and begin what is basically bloody trench warfare in Manchuria some of the time
    Rarely will push the Japs completely off the mainland but still never makes peace, sadly, since it deems itself to be winning by such a large margin

    I just wish that both AIs were capable of seeing when they either couldn't gain any more (Nat.Chi is never going to be able to build up the transports and know what to do with them as AI) or needed to cut their losses (if the first option doesn't happen then Japan bleeds itself completely dry by the time the rest of the action rolls around). Even the successful RoC scenarios generally involve Shanxi falling and thus pushing pack means retaking that area which gets surrendered in a peace deal by a victorious RoC; basically any cored area gets returned to RoC. And if they were wildly successful and Manchuko fell, that's a straight annex right there.
    Blah, listen to me rage. I just plan ahead in any case...

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    In the most recent 3.06, AI Japan usually wipes out AI China without too much effort. The map changes help Japan keep troops in supply better.
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    Lt. General eqqman's Avatar
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    I don't know if this was tweaked in 3.06, but in 3.05 the `won't fight in Allied territory` bug also makes a huge difference in China. If the RoC sends its troops into Shanxi right at the start, the Japanese can be delayed for some time. However, if the bug hits, the RoC's troops will sit at the Shanxi border and won't advance at all until the Japanese annex it, in which case the Japanese now have an advantage and are likely to win.

    EDIT: Been a while since I looked at the CPP map, but I think the RoC will now have a direct border with Manchuria so that problem will be solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eqqman View Post
    I don't know if this was tweaked in 3.06, but in 3.05 the `won't fight in Allied territory` bug also makes a huge difference in China. If the RoC sends its troops into Shanxi right at the start, the Japanese can be delayed for some time. However, if the bug hits, the RoC's troops will sit at the Shanxi border and won't advance at all until the Japanese annex it, in which case the Japanese now have an advantage and are likely to win.

    EDIT: Been a while since I looked at the CPP map, but I think the RoC will now have a direct border with Manchuria so that problem will be solved.
    Yeah, in HPP they already have... Playing as Com. China in Dec '40, at war with Nationalists and there is a trench war for taking the River with Japs... I´m sitting duck in there, watching the titans to clash out...
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  12. #12
    Second Lieutenant Carlo Curiosus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Curlyton View Post
    Will hold the line and begin what is basically bloody trench warfare in Manchuria some of the time
    That's what seems to be happening in my current game (3.05).

    As far as I can tell Japan popped Marco Polo Bridge while most of their army was still sat on the Sovier border. By the time they've SR'd everyone down south Shanxi have taken a few provinces and the Nat. China stacks have showed up to garrison the line.

    EDIT: And of course, the 1 MIL each their carrier fleets have spotted in Shanghai and Qingdao is obviously too strong a defence to consider an amphibious operation .
    Last edited by Carlo Curiosus; 06-08-2012 at 02:57.

  13. #13
    Major Major LarryLeica's Avatar

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    In my last game as USSR (3.062), I was merrily deploying my army around Vladivostok circa 1938 only to realise the Japanese had been pushed right to my border, the one with Manchuria. I tag switched to have a look and the Japanese had been almost wiped out apart from a few GAR divisions and Manchuko cavalry, the RoC was advancing down Korea at this point with a Japanese GAR division and 2 INF divisions at Pusan the only resistance. I went back to an older auto-save and they had been pocketed on the Mongolian border (pretty much their whole frontline force was in the pocket), with Dalian already taken. Have never seen that before, and of course the Japanese were completely finished for the rest of the game after that, which made a very strange game, it was all over by 1944.

    Most other games are as described, stalemate in Shanxi, no amphib landings succeed (as usual).

    EDIT: the other issue I've noticed is the Japanese never firing Marco Polo, allowing the RoC to get a massive advantage in numbers by 1940, making it suicide to do so.
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  14. #14
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    The latest 3.062 beta usually results with Japan in stalemate or spanked. IMO, the problem isn´t the stalemate per se, but how quickly it happens and how it stuns Japan, and then it does nothing except sink some allied ships here and there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryLeica View Post
    In my last game as USSR (3.062), I was merrily deploying my army around Vladivostok circa 1938 only to realise the Japanese had been pushed right to my border, the one with Manchuria. I tag switched to have a look and the Japanese had been almost wiped out apart from a few GAR divisions and Manchuko cavalry, the RoC was advancing down Korea at this point with a Japanese GAR division and 2 INF divisions at Pusan the only resistance. I went back to an older auto-save and they had been pocketed on the Mongolian border (pretty much their whole frontline force was in the pocket), with Dalian already taken. Have never seen that before, and of course the Japanese were completely finished for the rest of the game after that, which made a very strange game, it was all over by 1944.

    Most other games are as described, stalemate in Shanxi, no amphib landings succeed (as usual).

    EDIT: the other issue I've noticed is the Japanese never firing Marco Polo, allowing the RoC to get a massive advantage in numbers by 1940, making it suicide to do so.
    Yeah, in my game Japs also didn´t fire the event, so i was able to take over the Shanxi and beat the whole China (playing Communist China)
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  16. #16
    For those who want the stalemate to form between China and Japan (or even Russia and Germany) I found that tag switching and adding some officers, and perhaps deleting a division or two, created multi-year stalemates. If you do it in small amounts and monitor the front its quite easily adjustable, although some would consider it cheating. There is just something satisfying to do D-Day as the US in 1944, rather than rushing it in 1941 due to Soviet defeat after 4 months.

  17. #17
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    I'm quite new to the game and have started a few games and always saw Japan win and defeat all of China until 1939. Started with 3.05 and now I'm playing with 3.062, but I've changed the LUAs of some nations regarding the production weights. Seems to work so far.

  18. #18
    Major Major LarryLeica's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by drewski View Post
    For those who want the stalemate to form between China and Japan (or even Russia and Germany) I found that tag switching and adding some officers, and perhaps deleting a division or two, created multi-year stalemates. If you do it in small amounts and monitor the front its quite easily adjustable, although some would consider it cheating. There is just something satisfying to do D-Day as the US in 1944, rather than rushing it in 1941 due to Soviet defeat after 4 months.
    I usually do stuff like tag switch and build a Radar in Dover for the UK, and queue up or revise a few of the initial buld queues in the same way right at the start of the game.

    Here's a screenie I found of the diplo map on the first RoC stomps Japan game I saw (Sinkiang is in Comiterm) -



    And here's one from my current game, as you can see it has started again although Japan has survived a little longer this time (Sinkiang AND Com. China are both in the Comiterm at this point, which is unusual in itself.) -



    Why they are leaving so many infantry divisions guarding the border whilst getting whacked by the RoC when I have no troops there at that time is beyond me...

    Also, before you ask these are both IC based games, the first was a pure industrial game until 12/1938 hence resource numbers and IC. The second is a more refined version combining less IC with teching/upgrading for mobile practicals to rush to MEC by 01/1939.

    EDIT: I just tried a hands off game, deleting the Kwantung theatre for Japan, in the same way it made them stop getting stuck in SF, it worked much better here too. To try this, just open the OOB and transfer all the subunits in Kwantung theatre to Imperial, redraw the Imperial theatre so it covers everything, then disband Kwantung HQ. If you want you can automate the Imperial HQ as well and set it a few goals, i.e. Shanghai, Guandong etc...
    Last edited by LarryLeica; 06-08-2012 at 18:14.
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