Calibrating the Natural catastrophes - New regional decisions?

[B1rm0n]

So, I was thinking about the Lisbon's earthquake of 1755 for the portuguese decisions Sirk and I are working on and I started thinking that maybe it should be something more general. This is going to be a decision that's going to require a lot of discussion I believe..

So, for starters, what happenned in that earthquake? Well, most of Lisbon was destroyed and the only reason the whole Court and king weren't killed was because they were having a pic-nic (yes, they had the habit of not working a lot...), some say they were attending mass. A lot of the population died, and historical buildings were destroyed... This is an event in EU2 I think...

What happenned afterwards is what's interesting, the Court went about restructuring the city, into a fashion that still stands today, with wider streets, new modern buildings, new administrative divisions, and a lot of other improvements (A bit like Nero's Rome).

So, the event is already scripted, at least for natural disasters in colonies, I'm wondering if it's possible to script events (very rare) in certain european areas (earthquakes in the typically affected areas; volcanic eruptions where there are volcanos and so on) and then after allow for a regional decision of Reconstruction. By expending some ducats, the city would suffer improvements like a bigger base tax, population growth, trade income and/or other effects.

[SirkTheMonkey]

Hmmm, interesting. There's a defined Seismic Region but the disaster events don't use it. Instead the earthquake one uses the whole Southern Europe region.
Perhaps there could be several tiers of disaster events, such as a minor earthquake which rattles a province to one that breaks a few buildings up to a Lisbon-scale disaster. The game could somehow track how long it has been since the last event and maybe use that as a MTTH modifier. I would volunteer to implement it but I'm already behind on the Portuguese stuff.

[Malicite]

The disaster events don't use the Seismic Region? What is it used for then?

[WeissRaben]

Mmmmmh. Earthquakes are the only event I could see being ABSOLUTE - there is jack you can do to avoid them, AND nothing you do actually matters. The Tejo could have hosted Portugal, Lusitania, Hiberia or T'tarrgha, but in 1755 there would have been an earthquake there.

[B1rm0n]

Mmmmmh. Earthquakes are the only event I could see being ABSOLUTE - there is jack you can do to avoid them, AND nothing you do actually matters. The Tejo could have hosted Portugal, Lusitania, Hiberia or T'tarrgha, but in 1755 there would have been an earthquake there.

True, it just needs to be scripted in order to provide with an aftermath, a possibility to rebuild and improve... That's why I mentioned it should be available to any region, not only in Lisbon. I wasn't mentioning nations, but places, susceptible natural disasters...

[Rusky]

Any way of adding in a possibility of a tsunami after the earthquake? Or is that already there?

[SirkTheMonkey]

This raises the question in my mind: Do we want fixed natural disasters or keep them random? Should Lisbon ALWAYS be smashed in 1755?

[Malicite]

I would think keeping the system random would make the most sense. The game should start historically perhaps, but forcing it to follow all actual events is a bit much. Although I guess most natural disasters would always happen the way they do and aren't subject to the whims of humanity like the countries are. With some exceptions obviously >.>

In summation I've talked myself out of both ways and have no opinion on the subject anymore.

[JoeSteel]

It is interesting to think about how this could happen. Natural disasters are truly a part of a countries history and as such I feel they should be included. How they are included is something that would probably have issues lol. If we simply make them historic and have say Mt Etna erupt whenever it did historically then the player could easily do their reasurch and prepare for it. Making them random would be the best course however it would require alot of delving into to figure out what areas are historically more effected than others in a form of natural disaster and what the effects of these events would be is also a good thing to debate. You could even go further and make theorize what would happen after such an event and code even more events for it perhaps like a rebuilding event or an event for a neighboring country for disaster refugees.

[gigau]

That's what happens when you guys (okay, maybe not you, but some) ask me to slow down events.

There is a seismic region, that is used to trigger earthquakes, not just in the colonies. There effect is on population, as well as destruction of buildings. When strong, effects can be felt in neighbouring provinces. Tsunamis effects, in my mind, are included in that of the earthquake. But it's open to discussion.


I have no intention on making something happen for a specific province at a specific date. But i can see if i didn't tone it down too much.

[B1rm0n]

That's what happens when you guys (okay, maybe not you, but some) ask me to slow down events.

There is a seismic region, that is used to trigger earthquakes, not just in the colonies. There effect is on population, as well as destruction of buildings. When strong, effects can be felt in neighbouring provinces. Tsunamis effects, in my mind, are included in that of the earthquake. But it's open to discussion.


I have no intention on making something happen for a specific province at a specific date. But i can see if i didn't tone it down too much.

Well if that's already coded, great! How about a decision to rebuild afterwards?

[TheDarkMaster]

Maybe some disasters can place a modifier on a nation that is permanent until removed via a decision to rebuild?

[gigau]

Well if that's already coded, great! How about a decision to rebuild afterwards?

Well, for that, you have the building panel

[SirkTheMonkey]

There is a seismic region, that is used to trigger earthquakes, not just in the colonies.

It isn't though.

# 950001 - Earthquakes
province_event = {
    id = 950001

    trigger = {
        OR = {
            region = southern_europe
            region = asia_minor
            region = caucasus_caspian
            region = middle_east
            #FB region = north_africa
            region = persian_region
            region = indonesian_region
            region = far_east
            region = mesoamerica
            region = colombia
            region = andean
        }
        NOT = { has_province_modifier = sismic_chaos }
    }

    mean_time_to_happen = {
        months = 50000
        modifier = {
            factor = 2.0
            region = southern_europe
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.5
            region = asia_minor
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.25
            region = caucasus_caspian
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.5
            region = middle_east
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.75
            region = north_africa
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 1.35
            region = persian_region
        }
    }

    title = "EVTNAME950001"    # Earthquake in $PROVINCENAME$

While I'm here, is there any particular reason that the eastern coast of Australia is included in the (currently unused) seismic region? I did some research initially to complain about it being there but instead I'd like to complain why the western coast isn't included. Western Australia is further from the fault line but tends to have larger quakes.

[gigau]

Odd that i added a region i don't use


Fair enough about Australia... i didn't know.

[SirkTheMonkey]

Fair enough about Australia... i didn't know.

I didn't realise the extent of our earthquakes until just now when I looked up the list of Aussie quakes on Wikipedia, and I live here. I always thought we were nice and calm apart from the odd <5 magnitude quake and Newcastle.

[JoeSteel]

That's what happens when you guys (okay, maybe not you, but some) ask me to slow down events.

There is a seismic region, that is used to trigger earthquakes, not just in the colonies. There effect is on population, as well as destruction of buildings. When strong, effects can be felt in neighbouring provinces. Tsunamis effects, in my mind, are included in that of the earthquake. But it's open to discussion.


I have no intention on making something happen for a specific province at a specific date. But i can see if i didn't tone it down too much.

I figured you wouldnt code dated events like that seeing as this mod is more about the "What if" rather than the "what happened". I was just thinking that the more dynamic and in depth we can make the realism experience then the closer it will become to being a realistic scenario in the game, and seeing as natural disasters are indeed a factor that could effect things then this would be a step towerds that realism.

[WeissRaben]

I would think keeping the system random would make the most sense. The game should start historically perhaps, but forcing it to follow all actual events is a bit much. Although I guess most natural disasters would always happen the way they do and aren't subject to the whims of humanity like the countries are. With some exceptions obviously >.>

In summation I've talked myself out of both ways and have no opinion on the subject anymore.

The problem is that earthquakes and eruptions (meteorological disasters are another subject altogether) are absolute, at least in the extremely brief span of human history. They are consequences of facts happened millions of years ago, and just now we have strength enough to matter (A-Bomb in a fault would change its status, yes). Before that, alternative history can only do so much - and not preventing them.

This said: if it's a precise choice of design, then good enough.

[gigau]

This said: if it's a precise choice of design, then good enough.

Thing is, it's impossible to code an event for a specific date. You can probably have it fire the correct year, but that's about it.

Personally, i prefer keeping it open. But it's of course open to discussion.


But the way, recoded the events to properly use the sismic region. Also made the event a little likely to happen.


Question : could you guys make me a list of the provinces (with province ids if possible, but at least the in game province names) of the notable volcanoes that would make enough damage to be significant gamewise ?

[gigau]

No suggestions for volcano provinces ?