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Thread: variable_claim and core requirements

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacra View Post
    Hey, Lukes's not the only Brit awake at 03:00! It is always upsetting to monarchies when they lose possessions but it made sense for Britain to sit behind the navy rather then keep a port on the mainland and surround it by costly walls and try to fill it with troops.

    As for Canada it was pretty much indefensible considering the population difference between Canada and the 13 colonies. In that regard what with the money that would of had to be spent on forts and upkeep ect it was a liability or at least not a very big asset.

    Also I must confess the claim system is still going over my head. So to form Germany which needs a variable claim of 30 I would need to get 30 cores in Germany?
    Canada was fairly defensible, and was only taken by the excellent skill of the british troops and the genius of General Wolfe at Qebec. I mean, British troops proved it was defensible in the war of 1812, defending it using 4,000 troops against 12,000 USA regulars (before subsequently kicking American ass and burning Washington ).

    And yes, we've explained the claim system a million times, you need 30 cores on a region. I'll add an entry to the FAQ thread.

    Here you go: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...sked-Questions
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  2. #162
    Dont ask Pewt about LOOM cacra's Avatar
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    Well, once you take Newfoundland and Louisianna then the colonies are effectively cut off from reinforcements and supplies. Seeing as Britain had the biggest navy a blockade of these areas wouldnt of been very hard. Also France wasn't popular with the surrounding tribes it wouldnt of been very difficult to stir them up to attack the settlers. Then France was in a situation where it has a outnumbered population surrounded by enemies and defended by a army who couldn't get reinforcements. Which is a very different situation to what we faced in 1812.

    Thank you! I was just getting confused with the decimal points and stuff

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dafool View Post
    We've pretty much responded to most of the arguments for reverting this change. Not only have we pretty clearly stated why we've changed it, but we've also backed it up when necessary with both logic and history. In any case, a quick search did not reveal anything related to the "balance of power". If you're simply referring to your assertion that annexing enough provinces by default makes you the cultural union, then we've not only responded to it, but I feel fairly confident that we've debunked it as being unrealistic as well.
    Hmmmm... so you are telling me that you weren't aware of the discussions on "balance of power" when you've quoted and replied to some of those posts already (Hint: Post #3 already talked about it). You know... this does make me wonder how much of a post would you read before quoting it... and before claiming to have debunked it.

    Ah well, I suppose I should remind myself that nobody really has an obligation to pay attention to what others have written, although it's usually considered bad form to author ill-conceived summaries of other people's positions and express in a way that is contrary to the said individuals' intended message.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukew View Post
    Russia formed as a result of warfare, but it formed gradually - the Muscovites didn't just annex everything in a decade.
    Hmm... what about Ming, Qing, and Mughal?

    One thing that caught my interest regarding Russia, though, is that its founding year should've been 1547 by Ivan the Terrible. And... I wonder how well its expansion -> formation is modeled by this new variable_claim system...

    Also... to complain about annexing everything in a decade seems like an unreasonable exaggeration... It's like telling one not to drink water because a person'd die of organ damage if he drinks 20 cups. But... one thing I am quite certain, though, is that cultural unions are often formed after the event of war and generally do not involve a country waiting meticulously for the last iota bit of most recently-annexed territory to reach some 40th annexation anniversary. Ah well, it's just me saying useless stuff as usual.
    Last edited by ywhtptgtfo; 27-07-2012 at 07:34.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by ywhtptgtfo View Post
    Hmmmm... so you are telling me that you weren't aware of the discussions on "balance of power" when you've quoted and replied to some of those posts already (Hint: Post #3 already talked about it). You know... this does make me wonder how much of a post would you read before quoting it... and before claiming to have debunked it.

    Ah well, I suppose I should remind myself that nobody really has an obligation to pay attention to what others have written, although it's usually considered bad form to author ill-conceived summaries of other people's positions and express in a way that is contrary to the said individuals' intended message.
    Sorry, it was restricted the first page and second page. I didn't search that far back. In any case, it was what I said it would be and we responded to it with completely reasonable answers. No offense ywhtptgtfo, but I really feel like you're beating a dead horse here. We've already stated that we're not interested in hypothetical discussions about our design philosophy. If you'd like to contribute productive discussion based on actual gameplay experience, that's one thing. But at this point you're mostly just repeating your opinion despite the fact that Luke and I have both found it unconvincing. So please try to provide something more concrete and based in the actual game.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dafool View Post
    Sorry, it was restricted the first page and second page. I didn't search that far back. In any case, it was what I said it would be and we responded to it with completely reasonable answers. No offense ywhtptgtfo, but I really feel like you're beating a dead horse here. We've already stated that we're not interested in hypothetical discussions about our design philosophy. If you'd like to contribute productive discussion based on actual gameplay experience, that's one thing. But at this point you're mostly just repeating your opinion despite the fact that Luke and I have both found it unconvincing. So please try to provide something more concrete and based in the actual game.
    I am sorry for having to repeat, but statements like:

    "If you're simply referring to your assertion that annexing enough provinces by default makes you the cultural union"

    ... just give me a feeling that you either don't understand the point or are intentionally twisting it. After all, it's one thing to disagree (which is completely okay) and it's another to exaggerate/misrepresent other people's positions.

    Furthermore, I am okay with the philosophy of emphasizing on empirical results over theoretical speculations, but the comment I replied to was not about gameplay or your personal design philosophy, but rather the claim of "historically plausibility", which is something that can only be discussed in a theoretical domain and cannot be tested in a game. And in that context - No, I don't think the arguments there were really addressed (To be fair, they could've been and that I am too dim to catch the explanations). But since you very adamantly claimed that they were completely addressed and completely rebuked, I am going to let this go to avoid unnecessary conflicts.

  6. #166
    MEIOU and Taxes lukew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ywhtptgtfo View Post
    I am sorry for having to repeat, but statements like:

    "If you're simply referring to your assertion that annexing enough provinces by default makes you the cultural union"

    ... just give me a feeling that you either don't understand the point or are intentionally twisting it. After all, it's one thing to disagree (which is completely okay) and it's another to exaggerate/misrepresent other people's positions.

    Furthermore, I am okay with the philosophy of emphasizing on empirical results over theoretical speculations, but the comment I replied to was not about gameplay or your personal design philosophy, but rather the claim of "historically plausibility", which is something that can only be discussed in a theoretical domain and cannot be tested in a game. And in that context - No, I don't think the arguments there were really addressed (To be fair, they could've been and that I am too dim to catch the explanations). But since you very adamntly claimed that they were completely addressed and completely rebuked, I am going to let this go to avoid unnecessary conflicts.
    Statements like 'you either don't understand the point or are intentionally twisting it', sarcasm, and implications of our arrogance are extremely unhelpful. I'm fed up of this conversation, so I'll say this. I understand your arguments, I have read you repeat them countless times - however I still disagree. As such:

    We definitely will not be altering the core requirement for variable claims.
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  7. #167
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    I didn't see any implication of arrogance, but whatever. As for the rest, again - whatever.

    And just to be clear, this thread was intended to be a discussion and not a petition. Given how trivial it is to mod the scripts, whether or not a game balance mechanism is reverted in an official release is largely an aesthetic matter.

  8. #168
    Major Blackfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukew View Post
    And yes, we've explained the claim system a million times, you need 30 cores on a region. I'll add an entry to the FAQ thread.

    Here you go: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...sked-Questions
    It's possible to change what the tooltip says, right? Maybe a line like "Requires X cores in Y region" would be less confusing than the current text. No idea if it's doable, I don't mod EU3.

  9. #169
    Dont ask Pewt about LOOM cacra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackfish View Post
    It's possible to change what the tooltip says, right? Maybe a line like "Requires X cores in Y region" would be less confusing than the current text. No idea if it's doable, I don't mod EU3.
    it would be less confusing, but now its been explained in the faq i personally understand it.

  10. #170
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    I agree, the wiki description is pretty idiot-proof. I'm just saying, maybe instead of being exasperated at having to answer the same question a million times (which is understandable), something can be done to make the tooltip less oblique.

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